Wrapping up 2008's boxing standings

It was a tough year for some of boxing's icons of the 1990s while another may have seen his finest hour.

We hopefully have seen the last of Roy Jones Jr. and Oscar De La Hoya. Jones won just one round against Joe Calzaghe and De La Hoya didn't win any against Manny Pacquiao.

Evander Holyfield took yet another shot at a fifth world title and probably defeated Nikolai Valuev but didn't get the decision. He fared well enough though that he'll most likely keep fighting out of stubborness and a need for the money.

Bernard Hopkins on the other hand showed he remains a threat. He narrowly lost to Calzaghe early in the year and then schooled Kelly Pavlik late.

There was a lot of shuffling in my rankings of the top 100 fighters, including Pacquiao finally climbing into the top 100.

It's taken Manny a while to get on the list because a lot of his title fights were for "international" belts. He's now beaten four fighters likely to make the International Boxing Hall of Fame so Manny someday will be a top 40 fighter. For now, he's well down on the list, but if he fights and beats Hatton next year and can somehow lure Floyd Mayweather into the ring and hand him his first defeat, well Manny could be a top 20 champion.

Here's my updated list:

Rank, boxer, years, country, points, change from '07 if any
1. Muhammad Ali, 1960-81, U.S., 83.918
2. Joe Louis, 1934-51, U.S., 83.381
3. Henry Armstrong, 1931-45, U.S., 79.003
4. Sugar Ray Robinson, 1940-65, U.S., 74.937
5. Rocky Marciano, 1947-55, U.S., 62.826
6. Wilfredo Gomez, 1974-89, Puerto Rico, 61.101
7. Carlos Monzon, 1963-77, Argentina, 60.739
8. Joe Gans, 1891-09, U.S., 59.866
9. Archie Moore, 1936-63, U.S., 59.182 (+2)
10. Larry Holmes, 1973-02, U.S., 59.142

11. Alexis Arguello, 1968-95, Nicaragua, 58.754 (-2)
12. Manuel Ortiz, 1938-55, U.S., 58.499 (+3)
13. Ezzard Charles, 1940-59, U.S., 58.417 (-1)
14. Carlos Ortiz, 1955-72, Puerto Rico, 58.407 (+2)
15. Marvin Hagler, 1973-87, U.S., 58.095 (+2)
16. Roy Jones Jr., 1989-08, U.S., 57.818 (+1)
17. Aaron Pryor, 1976-90, U.S., 57.740 (-5)
18. Barney Ross, 1929-38, U.S., 57.273
19. Willie Pep, 1940-66, U.S., 56.750 (+1)
20. Michael Spinks, 1977-88, U.S., 56.058 (+1)

21. Tommy Ryan, 1887-07, U.S., 55.302 (+14)
(Ryan was the beneficiary of Mysterious Billy Smith's induction into the Hall of Fame. Ryan went 3-0 against Smith with three draws. All those fights gained points for Ryan)
22. Jose Napoles, 1958-75, Cuba, 55.084 (-1)
23. Ricardo Lopez, 1985-01, Mexico, 54.701
24. Salvador Sanchez, 1975-82, Mexico, 54.458 (-2)
25. Eder Jofre, 1957-76, Brazil, 54.130
26. Bernard Hopkins, 1988-08, U.S., 53.982 (-2)
27. Julio Cesar Chavez, 1980-05, Mexico, 53.310
28. Roberto Duran, 1968-01, Panama, 53.273
29. Oscar De La Hoya, 1992-08, U.S., 52.790 (+23)
(De La Hoya's leap simply is because he was misscored last year. I had not given him the correct point totals for his wins over Julio Cesar Chavez and Pernell Whitaker)
30. Felix Trinidad, 1990-08, Puerto Rico, 52.788 (-4)

31. Thomas Hearns, 1977-06, U.S., 52.397 (-2)
32. Antonio Cervantes, 1964-83, Colombia, 52.356 (+3)
33. Abe Attell, 1900-17, U.S., 52.353 (-3)
34. Joe Calzaghe, 1993-08, United Kingdom, 52.208 (+28)
(Calzaghe's wins over Hopkins and Jones Jr. gave him the biggest boost of anyone, even if he fought both well past their primes. The question now is will he really stay retired?)
35. Sandy Saddler, 1944-56, U.S., 51.845 (-3)
36. Sugar Ray Leonard, 1977-97, U.S., 51.664 (-3)
37. Azumah Nelson, 1979-98, Ghana, 51.619 (+1)
38. Khaosai Galaxy, 1980-91, Thailand, 51.594 (-7)
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr., 1996-07, U.S., 51.336 (+4)
40. Mike Tyson, 1985-05, U.S., 51.276 (-1)

41. Eusebio Pedroza, 1973-92, Panama, 51.174 (+5)
42. Yoko Gushiken, 1974-81, Japan, 51.083 (+3)
43. George Foreman, 1969-97, U.S., 51.079 (-9)
44. Terry McGovern, 1897-08, U.S., 51.046
45. Gene Tunney, 1915-28, U.S., 51.018 (-4)
46. Flash Elorde, 1951-71, Phillippines, 51.013 (+3)
47. Evander Holyfield, 1984-08, U.S., 50.904
48. James Jeffries, 1896-10, U.S., 50.875 (-8)
49. Carlos Zarate, 1970-88, Mexico, 50.760 (-12)
50. Jimmy McLarnin, 1923-36, U.S., 50.695

51. Joe Frazier, 1965-81, U.S., 50.669 (-9)
52. Tony Canzoneri, 1925-39, U.S., 50.202 (+8)
53. Jack Johnson, 1897-28, U.S., 50.188 (-5)
54. Pascual Perez, 1952-64, Argentina, 49.632 (-1)
55. Duilio Loi, 1948-62, Italy, 49.558 (+8)
56. Harry Greb, 1913-26, U.S., 49.489 (+5)
57. Floyd Patterson, 1952-72, U.S., 49.437 (-1)
58. Bob Foster, 1961-78, U.S., 49.435 (-3)
59. Lennox Lewis, 1989-03, United Kingdom, 49.427 (-5)
60. Emile Griffith, 1958-77, U.S., 49.282 (+4)

61. Stanley Ketchel, 1904-10, U.S., 49.188 (-10)
62. Vicente Saldivar, 1961-73, Mexico, 49.180 (-5)
63. Kostya Tszyu, 1992-05, Australia, 49.095 (-5)
64. Benny Leonard, 1911-32, U.S., 48.970 (-5)
65. Dariusz Michalczewski, 1991-05, Poland, 48.147 (+2)
66. Naseem Hamed, 1992-02, United Kingdom, 48.120 (-1)
67. Nino Benvenuti, 1961-71, Italy, 48.082 (+5)
68. Sam Langford, 1902-26, U.S., 47.940 (+1)
69. Erik Morales, 1993-07, Mexico, 47.931 (+2)
70. Jackie "Kid" Berg, 1924-45, U.S., 47.913 (+3)

71. Michael Carbajal, 1989-99, Canada, 47.772 (-1)
72. Ike Williams, 1940-55, U.S., 47.695 (+6)
73. Chiquita Gonzalez, 1984-95, Mexico, 47.555 (-7)
74. Pernell Whitaker, 1984-01, U.S., 47.467 (+1)
75. Hector Camacho, 1980-05, Puerto Rico, 47.396 (+1)
76. Sugar Shane Mosley, 1993-08, U.S., 47.307 (+1)
77. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, France, 47.282 (-3)
78. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, U.S., 47.103 (+2)
79. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, Panama, 47.096 (+3)
80. Maxie Rosenbloom, 1923-39, U.S., 46.852 (+9)

81. James Toney, 1988-07, U.S., 46.750 (+2)
82. Myung Woo Yuh, 1982-93, South Korea, 46.653 (+8)
83. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, U.S., 46.623 (-2)
84. Marco Antonio Barrera, 1989-07, Mexico, 46.469
85. Juan Carlos Gomez, 1995-08, Cuba, 46.440 (-6)
86. Jorge Arce, 1996-08, Mexico, 46.420 (+1)
87. Arthur Abraham, 2003-08, Germany, 46.398 (+9)
88. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, United Kingdom, 46.370
89. Sven Ottke, 1997-04, Germany, 46.315 (+6)
90. Miguel Angel Cotto, 2001-08, Puerto Rico, 46.172 (-22)
(Cotto's loss to Antonio Margarito sent him tumbling down the rankings because fighters are very closely bunched at this level)

91. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, Puerto Rico, 46.162
92. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, 1994-08, Thailand, 46.162
93. Ratanapol Sor Vorapin, 1990-08, Thailand, 45.970
94. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, U.S., 45.941
95. Fabrice Tiozzo, 1988-06, France, 45.823
96. Manny Pacquiao, 1995-08, Phillippines, 45.702
97. Bob Montgomery, 1938-50, U.S., 45.668
98. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, Argentina, 45.531
99. Mickey Walker, 1919-35, U.S., 45.531
100. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, U.S., 45.464

Could Johnson challenge the King?

It was a tough year for Cale Yarborough. Not only did Jimmie Johnson tie his mark of three straight NASCAR top series titles, in my system Jeff Gordon's seventh place finish in this year's series gave him enough career points to pass Yarborough for fourth place all-time.

Gordon easily is close enough to Darrell Waltrip to pass him for third with a couple more top-shelf seasons and considering he races for Hendrick, he should have some wins left in him.

But Gordon is no longer the week-to-week force and looks unlikely to challenge Dale Earnhardt for second.

Now, you have to wonder how long Johnson can dominate and how high can he climb. It's not just the titles, Johnson has finished in the top five for seven straight years. He moved up three places at the end of this year to No. 8. Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards appear to be the biggest threats to making it four in a row, but right now who is going to bet against him? Perhaps it's Johnson who can advance to No. 2 and make a run at Richard Petty. He'll need another 10 years at the top level to have a chance.

Farther down in the rankings, Jeff Burton moved up two spots to No. 26. Kevin Harvick climbed five spots to move into the ultimate race at No. 40. But even Harvick was passed by this year's rocket rise of Carl Edwards. Edwards enters the race at No. 38, a jump of 12 spots.

Harvick and Edwards knocked this year's Daytona 500 winner Ryan Newman and Ernie Irvan out of the top 43.

Pole pos., Racer, Total
1. Richard Petty, 119.68
2. Dale Earnhardt, 91.83
3. Darell Waltrip, 84.33
4. Jeff Gordon, 83.62
5. Cale Yarborough, 83.52
6. David Pearson, 76.66
7. Bobby Allison, 72.36
8. Jimmie Johnson, 70.10
9. Lee Petty, 67.11
10. Bill Elliott, 66.64
11. Herb Thomas, 65.13
12. Dale Jarrett, 60.94
13. Buck Baker, 58.67
14. Ned Jarrett, 57.72
15. Tim Flock, 57.47
16. Tony Stewart, 52.83
17. Terry Labonte, 50.50
18. Mark Martin, 49.90
19. Benny Parsons, 49.75
20. Joe Weatherly, 42.90
21. Bobby Labonte, 41.53
22. Bobby Isaac, 39.26
23. Rex White, 38.27
24. Fireball Roberts, 38.00
25. Matt Kenseth, 37.64
26. Jeff Burton, 37.21
27. Harry Gant, 36.29
28. Fonty Flock, 36.23
29. James Hylton, 35.22
30. Kurt Busch, 35.21
31. Ricky Rudd, 33.77
32. Curtis Turner, 33.56
33. Junior Johnson, 33.16
34. Sterling Marlin, 31.51
35. Dale Earnhardt Jr., 30.89
36. Davey Allison, 30.29
37. Speedy Thompson, 28.54
38. Carl Edwards, 26.42
39. Dave Marcis, 26.25
40. Kevin Harvick, 25.99
41. Jim Paschal, 25.79
42. Ken Schrader, 24.63
43. Buddy Baker, 23.88

The curtain falls

Finally on Roy Jones Jr. I paid $49.99 for the Jones-Calzaghe fight and was shocked at how badly Calzaghe beat up on Jones.

I was hoping to see the Roy Jones Jr. who won every round against James Toney. Instead, I saw a fighter who couldn't throw combinations or put up much defense when crowded or use his legs to stay out of a corner.

But one thing should be noted. Jones was only three years older than Calzaghe. You really have to wonder if Calzaghe would have beaten Jones in the late 90s, early 2000s. His smothering style really bothered Jones. There were lots of big Jones punches that whistled by and maybe that would have been the difference. A younger Jones may have done a lot more damage.

Still, I felt like I was watching Muhammad Ali versus Larry Holmes or Mike Tyson against any number of guys at the end of his career.

The fight was big in my system to determine the all-time top 100 fighters. Jones slipped a few notches and Calzaghe climbed 20 spots. If Calzaghe indeed retires, he may climb into the top 25 some day.

My new No. 11 to No. 40:
Rank, fighter, years, country, points
11. Alexis Arguello, 1968-95, Nicaragua, 58.770
12. Manuel Ortiz, 1938-55, U.S., 58.499
13. Carlos Ortiz, 1955-72, Puerto Rico, 58.440
14. Ezzard Charles, 1940-59, U.S., 58.417
15. Marvin Hagler, 1973-87, U.S., 58.112
16. Roy Jones Jr., 1989-08, U.S., 57.901
17. Aaron Pryor, 1976-90, U.S., 57.740
18. Barney Ross, 1929-38, U.S., 57.306
19. Willie Pep, 1940-66, U.S., 56.766
20. Michael Spinks, 1977-88, U.S., 56.058
21. Jose Napoles, 1958-75, Cuba, 55.100
22. Ricardo Lopez, 1985-01, Mexico, 54.851
23. Salvador Sanchez, 1975-82, Mexico, 54.474
24. Eder Jofre, 1957-76, Brazil, 54.147
25. Bernard Hopkins, 1988-08, U.S., 53.532
26. Julio Cesar Chavez, 1980-05, Mexico, 53.310
27. Roberto Duran, 1968-01, Panama, 53.273
28. Thomas Hearns, 1977-06, U.S., 52.430
29. Felix Trinidad, 1990-08, Puerto Rico, 52.372
30. Antonio Cervantes, 1964-83, Colombia, 52.356
31. Abe Attell, 1900-17, U.S., 52.353
32. Joe Calzaghe, 1993-08, United Kingdom, 52.058
33. Sandy Saddler, 1944-56, U.S., 51.878
34. Sugar Ray Leonard, 1977-97, U.S., 51.697
35. Azumah Nelson, 1979-98, Ghana, 51.619
36. Khaosai Galaxy, 1980-91, Thailand, 51.594
37. Tommy Ryan, 1887-07, U.S., 51.296
38. Eusebio Pedroza, 1973-92, Panama, 51.191
39. Evander Holyfield, 1984-07, U.S., 51.133
40. George Foreman, 1969-97, U.S., 51.096

Jones vs. Calzaghe, pre fight measurements

Of the two fighters entering the ring tonight, a win is much more crucial to Joe Calzaghe's place in history. Jones has titles from middleweight to heavyweight and wins over fighters like Virgil Hill, Mike McCallum, Bernard Hopkins and James Toney.

Calzaghe has the perfect record, but the only real names on his resume are Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler and Hopkins. Lacy is no Hall of Famer, Kessler has a ways to go and many people believe Hopkins beat Calzaghe.

Going into tonight, I have Roy Jones Jr. ranked 12th all time and Calzaghe at No. 50.

How did they get to those positions? I'll break it down.

Joe Calzaghe:

* He has no title fight wins over Hall of Famers -- 0 points

*He has no wins over Hall of Famers in lesser or non-title fights -- 0 points
(This will change when Hopkins is inducted)

* He has one win as a unified champion (in this era I consider 3 of 4 of the major titles to be unified), that was against Kessler -- 65 points

* He has two other wins in WBA, WBC or IBF title fights and none by knockout -- 70 points.

* He has a 19-0 record with 11 KOs in WBO title fights. I grade WBO wins lower than WBA, WBC and IBF -- 543.75 points.

* He has a 2-0, 2 KO record in stepping stone title fights. 37.5 points.

* Since my system ranks fighters on their best 60 fight record. His non-title fight record was adjusted to 36-0 with 31.1 knockouts -- 437.7 points.

* I do another career ranking and Calzaghe's undefeated record helps here -- 1,766.7 points.

That's a total of 2920.6 points.

Where Calzaghe is hurt and where a win tonight would really help is his top 125 bonus points. He's two fighters in the all-time top 125 -- Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Those are worth 107 bonus points (94 for Hopkins and 13 for Kessler).

So Calzaghe's final total is 3027.6, which I divide by 60 and get 50.46.

Roy Jones Jr.

* He is 1-0 with a KO in Hall of Fame title fights (Mike McCallum) -- 100 points.
(This will grow as Hill, Toney and Hopkins are inducted)

* Jones is 8-0 with 5 KOs in unified title fights -- 601.25 points.

* Jones is 14-4 with 8 KOs and 2 KO losses in 18 WBA, WBC or IBF title fights -- 517.5 points
(This is where the Tarver and Johnson knockouts hurt, points are deducted for KO losses)

* Jones has no WBO title fights and is 3-0 with a KO in stepping stone title fights -- 48.75 points.

* That's 30 title fights. So his non-title fight record is adjusted to 30-0 with 27.7 KOs -- 369.2 points.

* His career record of 52-4 with the 38 KOs and 2 KO losses -- 1626.6 points.

That's a total of 3265.3 points. Well ahead of Calzaghe. Once you add in top 125 bonus points the gap grows even more.

Jones has beaten Virgil Hill (18 points), Mike McCallum (10 points), James Toney (41 points), Felix Trinidad (88 points) and Bernard Hopkins (94 points). That's 251 points.

That gives him a total of 3516.3. Divide that by 60 and you have 58.6 points.

A win tonight would tack on about 60 more bonus points for Jones (after factoring in Calzaghe's loss) and that would lift Jones to No. 9 all time ahead of Archie Moore.

If Calzaghe wins, Jones would be worth about 110 points and that would lift him up to around No. 31 Abe Attell and No. 32 Sandy Saddler.

On the outside looking in

Vic Darchinyan's dominant win over Cristian Mijares Saturday night was surprising for how easy it looked. I had the Armenian pitching a shutout and Mijares never really looked effective.

What made the win so surprising was that Darchinyan was beaten so badly by Nonito Donaire last year. Donaire showed Darchinyan could be had by a slick boxer.

That desriptino seemed to fit Mijares, but he had the wrong fight plan from the start.

Darchinyan's win gives him three of the four major super flyweight/junior bantamweight titles and makes him a factor again in my all-time top 100 fighters. He sits just outside the top 100.

Here is the updated No. 90 to No. 110:

90. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, 1994-08, Thailand, 46.162
91. Miguel Angel Cotto, 2001-08, Puerto Rico, 46.156
92. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, U.S., 45.975
93. Ratanapol Sor Vorapin, 1990-08, Thailand, 45.970
94. Fabrice Tiozzo, 1988-06, France, 45.873
95. Bob Montgomery, 1938-50, U.S., 45.701
96. Arthur Abraham, 2003-08, Germany, 45.627
97. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, Argentina, 45.531
98. Mickey Walker, 1919-35, U.S., 45.531
99. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, U.S., 45.464
100. Miguel Canto, 1969-82, Mexico, 45.406
101. Vic Darchinyan, 2000-08, Armenia, 45.245
102. Kid Gavilan, 1943-58, Cuba, 45.226
103. Edwin Valero, 2003-08, Venezuela, 45.208
104. Orlando Canizales, 1984-99, U.S., 45.167
105. Sung Kil Moon, 1987-93, South Korea, 45.146
106. Ricky Hatton, 1997-08, United Kingdom, 45.140
107. Yuri Arbachakov, 1990-97, Russia, 45.016
108. Orzubek Nazarov, 1990-98, Kyrgyzstan, 45.014
109. Les Darcy, 1910-16, Australia, 44.987
110. Jimmy Wilde, 1910-23, United Kingdom, 44.777

Any questions?

Depending on how Kelly Pavlik rebounds from the lessons he received from Bernard Hopkins Saturday night this win may be Hopkins' defining moment.

He came in an 8-to-1 underdog despite fighting Joe Calzaghe to what many thought was a draw. But from the opening bell it was apparent that Pavlik was no match for Hopkins, at least at this point in his career.

One of the judges gave Hopkins all 12 rounds.

In a career loaded with solid wins, Hopkins really has few memorable ones. He lost to Roy Jones Jr. way back in 1993. His better wins as middleweight champ were over Glen Johnson when he was undefeated, an overmatched Oscar De La Hoya, William Joppy and Felix Trinidad in 2001 when he was undefeated but unable to bring his power with him to the 160-pound division.

If Pavlik rebounds, returns to 160 pounds and cleans out the division by beating Felix Sturm and Arthur Abraham -- who before this fight showed little willingness to test Pavlik -- then Hopkins will have a domination of one of the greats.

If Hopkins turns out to have solved the Pavlik puzzle then maybe the win loses its luster. In any case, Hopkins was back on top at least for this night even if it wasn't for a championship belt.

In terms of my rankings, because it wasn't for a title it didn't lift Hopkins at all in the rankings. He remains No. 25 behind Eder Jofre and in front of Julio Cesar Chavez. Pavlik dropped to No. 133 just in front of Vitali Klitschko. If Pavlik continues on to a Hall of Fame career, then Hopkins will receive a lot more for the win.

In terms of all-time Middleweights, this is where I have Hopkins:

1. (4 all-time) Sugar Ray Robinson, 1940-1965
2. (7) Carlos Monzon, 1963-1977
3. (16) Marvin Hagler, 1973-1987
4. (25) Bernard Hopkins, 1988-2008
5. (36) Tommy Ryan, 1887-1907
6. (56) Harry Greb, 1913-1926
7. (61) Stanley Ketchel, 1904-1910
8. (67) Nino Benvenuti, 1961-1971
9. (76) Marcel Cerdan, 1934-1949
10. (79) James Toney, 1988-2007 (middleweight was his best weight)

There are some other greats who held the Middleweight title at some point, including Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr., Bob Fitzsimmons, but they did way more damage in other divisions. Robinson was better at welter but still best at middle.

Measuring the Klitschko brothers

I got Showtime just in time to catch the double-header of Vitali Klitschko vs. Samuel Peter and Antonio Tarver vs. Chad Dawson.

I gave Peter a punchers chance and was shocked he showed so little skill. He just stood there, no bobbing and weaving, no feinting. Instead, he just ate jab after jab and then right hands over the top. This was no Frazier-Ali match for sure.

The Dawson-Tarver fight was much better. They were even for a while and then Dawson's speed took over and by the end Tarver looked like a shot fighter. The only drawback is that both were so good defensively neither really got a clean shot or an opening to go for a knockout.

Back to the Klitschko's though. Now the Klitschkos own two of the four major title belts and since they say they'll never fight each other it means we won't have a unified title anytime soon.

So that means relatively few options for those two to move up on my list of all-time greatest fighters. Their records are sterling -- Wladimir is 51-3 with 45 knockouts and Vitali is 36-2 with 35 KOs.

Yet Wladimir is ranked No. 114 on my list and Vitali is No. 131, one behind Valuev. For both it comes down to lack of enough title fights and neither will improve much in retirement because of a lack of Hall of Fame level victories.

Wladimir is 6-0 with 5 KOs in his major title fights and 6-2 with 5 KOs in lesser title fights. Of all his wins, the only fighter he's beaten who has even a small chance at the International Boxing Hall of Fame is Chris Byrd. So Wladimir needs to defend his title several more times to move into the top 100.

Vitali, because of his injuries, has even less of a chance. The win over Peter was his first fight in four years and he's 37 now. Vitali's greatest fight was a loss. He was ahead on points against Lennox Lewis when the referee had to stop the fight because of Vitali's chopped up face.

Had Vitali been able to stop Lewis, arguably one of the 10 best heavyweights ever, then he'd have a chance to finish in the top 100.

Really, both are hurt by the era they fight in. We'll never really know how good they were.

Iron man leads QB rankings -- for now

I've read lots of different rankings of the QB position. I believe Sports Illustrated has, at various times, picked three -- Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana and John Elway. I seem to remember Dr. Z picking Otto Graham once as well.

Fran Tarkenton owned a lot of the records that Dan Marino broke that just recently were broken by Brett Favre. But between those three there is just one Super Bowl trophy and winning counts for a lot.

So who is my No. 1, the guy who mixes longevity and health with stats as well as a title. If you look No. 6, though, he may not hold on to the spot for long. Unlike the other positions, I chose to put the top 32 out there because some guys with glittery reputations and lots of Super Bowl trophies are pretty far down the list.

Rank, player, years, point total
1. Brett Favre, 1991-2007, 39015.4
2. Steve Young, 1985-1999, 38662.0
3. Johnny Unitas, 1956-1973, 38555.4
4. Joe Montana, 1979-1994, 37691.0
5. Dan Marino, 1983-1999, 37535.2
6. Peyton Manning, 1998-2007, 37256.1
7. John Elway, 1983-1998, 36392.6
8. Fran Tarkenton, 1961-1978, 36136.1
9. Otto Graham, 1946-1955, 36072.7
10. Sid Luckman, 1939-1950, 35928.8
11. Roger Staubach, 1969-1979, 35428.8
12. Y.A. Tittle, 1948-1964, 34935.6
13. Len Dawson, 1957-1975, 34276.7
14. Ken Anderson, 1971-1986, 34224.2
15. Dan Fouts, 1973-1987, 34198.2
16. Sammy Baugh, 1937-1952, 34056.9
17. Randall Cunningham, 1985-2001, 33958.8
18. Warren Moon, 1984-2000, 33741.3
19. Norm Van Brocklin, 1949-1960, 33564.4
20. Boomer Esiason, 1984-1997, 33404.0
21. Sonny Jurgensen, 1957-1974, 33288.1
22. Daryle Lamonica, 1963-1974, 33142.7
23. Jim Kelly, 1986-1996, 33093.3
24. Rich Gannon, 1987-2004, 33031.0
25. Terry Bradshaw, 1970-1983, 32785.9
26. Bart Starr, 1956-1971, 32734.9
27. Bobby Layne, 1948-1962, 32297.2
28. Ken Stabler, 1970-1984, 32266.5
29. Bob Griese, 1967-1980, 32068.0
30. John Hadl, 1962-1977, 32024.0
31. Tom Brady, 2000-2007, 31408.2
32. Drew Bledsoe, 1993-2006, 31300.5

Brady was poised to start moving way up the list when he blew out his knee. Bradshaw was a terrible QB early in his career and the Steelers won most of those titles on defense and a running game. Stabler's career numbers also don't match his reputation.

Ken Anderson deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. The only on the list I really question myself is Rich Gannon, but he had some top shelf years.

Looking at the top of the list:

Here is the top 10 of the 3-year rankings (the peak years):
1. Steve Young; 2. Johnny Unitas; 3. Brett Favre; 4. Sid Luckman; 5. Joe Montana; 6. Peyton Manning; 7. Y.A. Tittle; 8. Roger Staubach; 9. Dan Marino; 10. Otto Graham

Top 10 for 6-year rankings:
1. Steve Young; 2. Johnny Unitas; 3. Peyton Manning; 4. Brett Favre; 5. Joe Montana; 6. Roger Staubach; 7. Otto Graham; 8. Dan Marino; 9. Sid Luckman; 10. Y.A. Tittle

Top 10 for 10-year rankings:
1. Johnny Unitas; 2. Brett Favre; 3. Joe Montana; 4. Otto Graham; 5. Peyton Manning; 6. Steve Young; 7. Dan Marino; 8. Fran Tarkenton; 9. John Elway; 10. Sid Luckman

Top 10 for career rankings:
1. Brett Favre; 2. Dan Marino; 3. John Elway; 4. Fran Tarkenton; 5. Joe Montana; 6. Johnny Unitas; 7. Steve Young; 8. Peyton Manning; 9. Warren Moon; 10. Len Dawson

Best halfback -- so many to choose from

There are two positions in football where passion really comes into play -- quarterback and halfback.

Chicago fans take it as a personal affront if you argue that anyone was better than Walter Payton.

Detroit fans who watched Barry Sanders carry a mediocre team to winning seasons most of his stellar career can not believe anyone could be better.

Dallas fans like to point to Emmitt Smith's records, yards, touchdowns, and the fact that the Cowboys won relentlessly with him in the backfield.

So which is it? The overall play of Payton? The wow factor of Sanders? Or the lead horse in one of the best teams ever put together?

Rank, player, years, points
1. Emmitt Smith, 1990-2004, 25873.5
2. Walter Payton, 1975-1987, 25583.5
3. Marshall Faulk, 1994-2005, 24782.4
4. Barry Sanders, 1989-1998, 24535.2
5. Thurman Thomas, 1988-2000, 24154.5
6. Marcus Allen, 1982-1997, 23791.3
7. Lenny Moore, 1956-1967, 22937.2
8. Tony Dorsett, 1977-1988, 22675.4
9. Franco Harris, 1972-1984, 22517.3
10. Leroy Kelly, 1964-1973, 21834.9
11. Ladainian Tomlinson, 2001-2007, 21661.4
12. O.J. Simpson, 1969-1979, 21312.6
13. Eric Dickerson, 1983-1993, 21240.5
14. Steve Van Buren, 1944-1951, 21009.7
15. James Brooks, 1981-1992, 20602.4
16. Frank Gifford, 1952-1964, 20324.9
17. Edgerrin James, 1999-2007, 20301.9
18. Chuck Foreman, 1973-1980, 20266.3
19. Curtis Martin, 1995-2005, 20028.2
20. Earl Campbell, 1978-1985, 19727.4

My earliest memories of a great running back was Earl Campbell. I was shocked he finished so low. But his career went south early and the Oilers didn't score him a lot of points with wins and points.

O.J. Simpson was another one who I thought would finish higher. The Bills for most of his career were terrible and they didn't use Simpson much as a receiver.

Team success certainly carried Franco Harris higher than most would put him.

But let's look at the top five. Sanders at No. 4 seems low but he chose to walk away from the game rather than set records. That hurt him when compared to Smith. Team success gave Smith the edge over Payton and Faulk's central role in one of the greatest offenses helped as well.

Let's look at how the career stats helped Smith.

Best 3-year average:
1. Marshall Faulk; 2. Emmitt Smith; 3. Thurman Thomas; 4. Walter Payton; 5. Chuck Foreman. Sanders is seventh because his teams didn't go deep into the playoffs. All the guys in the top five played in Super Bowls.

Best 6-year average:
1. Emmitt Smith; 2. Walter Payton; 3. Barry Sanders; 4. Marshall Faulk; 5. Thurman Thomas. You see Sanders' year-in, year-out greatness start to come to the front.

Best 10-year average:
1. Walter Payton; 2. Barry Sanders; 3. Emmitt Smith; 4. Marshall Faulk; 5. Thurman Thomas.

Best career scores:
1. Emmitt Smith; 2. Walter Payton; 3. Marcus Allen; 4. Marshall Faulk; 5. Barry Sanders. Sanders finished nearly 700 points behind Smith in this category.

When Sanders retired he was 31 years old. For many running backs, that's when they begin to slow down. So to expect him to maintain the level he was playing at in his 20s perhaps is unrealistic.

But as a 30-year-old, Sanders gained 1,491 yards on 343 carries. That's 4.3 yards per carry and 93.2 yards per game. The Lions could have spelled him more. Perhaps cut his carries to 250 and use him more in the passing game. He had at least 3,000 yards still in the tank. That would have pushed him to No. 2 and perhaps No. 1.

But that didn't happen and he's No. 4 in my book.

Not done yet, Mosely moves up a couple

Sugar Shane Mosely's knockout over Ricardo Mayorga shows he may have some big fights left.

He wants to fight Antonio Margarito. Paul Williams wants to fight Margarito. Everyone wants to fight Margarito.

Time is running out on Mosely but he's done enough to safely be in my top 100 all-time fighters.

While Mosely was generating more press, Juan Carlos Gomez of Cuba was moving into position for a title fight. He beat Ukrainian heavyweight Vladimir Virchis in a final eliminator for the WBC crown, meaning he's in line to fight the winner of Samuel Peter-Vitali Klitschko.

Gomez, who now fights out of Germany, was a dominant cruiserweight champion from 1998 to 2001. He's been fighting at heavyweight since 2002 and still hasn't been given a title shot despite the fact the division is a mess.

With the win, Gomez, who is 19-0 in title fights in his career, moved up two slots in the top 100. Here's the updated ranking from 75-90.

Rank, fighter, years, country, points
75. Hector Camacho, 1980-05, Puerto Rico, 47.446
76. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, France, 47.282
77. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, U.S., 47.103
78. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, Panama, 47.096
79. James Toney, 1988-07, U.S., 47.000
80. Sugar Shane Mosley, 1993-07, U.S., 46.840
81. Maxie Rosenbloom, 1923-39, U.S., 46.836
82. Myung Woo Yuh, 1982-93, South Korea, 46.653
83. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, U.S., 46.639
84. Ratanapol Sor Vorapin, 1990-08, Thailand, 46.551
85. Marco Antonio Barrera, 1989-07, Mexico, 46.502
86. Juan Carlos Gomez, 1995-07, Cuba, 46.440
87. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, United Kingdom, 46.370
88. Sven Ottke, 1997-04, Germany, 46.315
89. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, Puerto Rico, 46.195
90. Miguel Angel Cotto, 2001-08, Puerto Rico, 46.156

No 1 for all-time

I'm a Cincinnati Bengals fan so naturally I hate every other team in their division.

But I'm at least rooting for one player from an opposing squad -- Le'Ron McClain. McClain, a second year player, has 152 yards rushing on 36 carries in Baltimore's first two games. For a fullback in this day and age, that's amazing.

The position has evolved essentially into a sixth offensive lineman. Long gone are the days of Csonka, Nagurski, John Henry Johnson. Even a Larry Centers, who blocked, ran sometimes and mostly became a receiver, are over.

My favorite Bengals team, the Super Bowl '88 Bengals, featured 1,000-yard rushers at halfback, James Brooks, and fullback, Ickey Woods.

I don't know why teams went away from triple threat fullbacks, but I miss them.

So go McClain go. Until offensive coordinators get creative again, this list of the top 20 fullbacks of all time isn't likely to change.

Rank, player, years, total
1. Jim Brown, 1957-1965, 26200.3
2. Jim Taylor, 1958-1967, 21848.9
3. Roger Craig, 1983-1993, 21115.4
4. Larry Csonka, 1968-1979, 20310.2
5. Bronco Nagurski, 1930-1943, 19796.4
6. Marion Motley, 1946-1955, 19256.6
7. John Riggins, 1971-1985, 18265.7
8. Dan Towler, 1950-1955, 18089.5
9. Bill Brown, 1961-1974, 17053.3
10. John Henry Johnson, 1954-1966, 16884.6
11. Tank Younger, 1949-1958, 16726.7
12. Ken Willard, 1965-1974, 16436.0
13. Mike Pruitt, 1976-1986, 16249.9
14. Alan Ameche, 1955-1960, 15622.2
15. Don Perkins, 1961-1968, 15600.6
16. Marshall Goldberg, 1939-1948, 15213.1
17. Hewritt Dixon, 1963-1970, 15174.5
18. Keith Lincoln, 1961-1968, 15023.9
19. Mike Alstott, 1996-2005, 15022.9
20. Cookie Gilchrist, 1962-1967, 14728.9

Golden oldie a bit of a surprise

When I started ranking football players I counted on a few givens, the sun would come up the next day, the property taxes would come due and Jerry Rice would be the No. 1 receiver.

Then I really looked at the stats of the first great wide receiver.

Here are the 40 greatest wideouts in pro football history.

Rank, player, years, total
1. Don Hutson, 1935-1945, 31916.7
2. Jerry Rice, 1985-2004, 31914.9
3. Marvin Harrison, 1996-2007, 26102.2
4. Randy Moss, 1998-2007, 25708.5
5. Paul Warfield, 1964-1977, 25333.4
6. Terrell Owens, 1996-2007, 25106.1
7. Lance Alworth, 1962-1972, 24687.5
8. Cliff Branch, 1972-1985, 24622.8
9. James Lofton, 1978-1993, 24265.2
10. Andre Reed, 1985-2000, 24212.3
11. Fred Biletnikoff, 1965-1978, 23504.9
12. Bullet Bob Hayes, 1965-1975, 23123.4
13. Harold Jackson, 1968-1983, 23112.4
14. Steve Largent, 1976-1989, 23057.4
15. Raymond Berry, 1955-1967, 23050.0
16. Tim Brown, 1988-2004, 22955.8
17. Cris Carter, 1987-2002, 22862.8
18. Gary Clark, 1985-1995, 22591.8
19. Isaac Bruce, 1994-2007, 22587.9
20. Michael Irvin, 1988-1999, 22505.1
21. Crazylegs Hirsch, 1946-1957, 22504.0
22. Torry Holt, 1999-2007, 22368.6
23. Harold Carmichael, 1971-1984, 22078.5
24. Dan Maynard, 1958-1973, 22078.0
25. Art Monk, 1980-1995, 21927.6
26. Mark Clayton, 1983-1993, 21882.0
27. John Stallworth, 1974-1987, 21880.8
28. Stanley Morgan, 1977-1990, 21778.6
29. Gene Washington, 1969-1979, 21593.8
30. Irving Fryar, 1984-2000, 21449.0
31. Dante Lavelli, 1946-1956, 21444.5
32. Charlie Joiner, 1969-1986, 21432.3
33. Pete Pihos, 1947-1955, 21387.1
34. Del Shofner, 1957-1967, 21357.5
35. Charley Taylor, 1964-1977, 21290.8
36. Jimmy Smith, 1992-2005, 21260.5
37. Tommy McDonald, 1957-1968, 21185.5
38. Wes Chandler, 1978-1988, 21147.3
39. Bobby Mitchell, 1958-1968, 21143.5
40. Billy Howton, 1952-1963, 21073.8

I was surprised Harrison was so high. He's not as loud as Moss and Owens, but year-after-year he puts up the numbers. Moss, though, if he stays focused may end up challenging Rice and Hutson.

Some players I initially thought were going to be higher were Steve Largent, Art Monk and Charlie Joiner. Largent was hurt by the Seahawks not being a contender. Monk and Joiner didn't put up big numbers on a consistent basis. They just played forever.

One player you don't see is Lynn Swann. Swann has some great highlight reel catches, but he was only a top player for a couple of seasons. Those great Steelers teams won on defense, defense, defense and Franco Harris.

Swann ranks No. 45 on my list. Isaac Curtis, who played at the same time but for a lesser team -- the Bengals -- in a lesser division, is No. 42. How can Swann be in the Hall of Fame and Curtis not be in as well?

Dual threats

Tight end is an interesting position. For the longest time it was just another blocker. Then Mike Ditka and John Mackey made the position a weapon in the 1960s.

But in the 1980s, there was a small move away from the position. The run-and-shoot, which was employed by several teams, did not have a tight end.

Today, with Antonio Gates, Jeremy Shocker, Alge Crumpler and Jason Witten, it's back in fashion to have a tight end that can break a game open.

It's also the first position I've released that has individual stats to mix in with team success. Still, it's team success that helped our current No. 1.

Rank, player, years, total
1. Shannon Sharpe, 1990-2003, 22131.5
2. Tony Gonzalez, 1997-2007, 21055.3
3. Kellen Winslow, 1979-1987, 19780.6
4. Mike Ditka, 1961-1972, 19505.7
5. John Mackey, 1963-1972, 19353.7
6. Todd Christensen, 1979-1988, 19114.6
7. Dave Casper, 1974-1984, 19068.9
8. Jackie Smith, 1963-1978, 19013.0
9. Pete Retzlaff, 1956-1966, 18653.1
10. Raymond Chester, 1970-1981, 18435.7
11. Ozzie Newsome, 1978-1990, 18259.3
12. Riley Odoms, 1972-1983, 18107.2
13. Ben Coates, 1991-2000, 17592.0
14. Keith Jackson, 1988-1996, 17579.5
15. Brent Jones, 1987-1997, 17446.1
16. Charlie Sanders, 1968-1977, 16720.0
17. Wesley Walls, 1989-2003, 16564.2
18. Fred Arbanas, 1962-1970, 16334.8
19. Steve Jordan, 1982-1994, 16120.3
20. Jay Novacek, 1985-1995, 16075.2

Gates is the No. 24 ranked tight end and will move into the top 20 if he remains healthy this yar. Pete Retzlaff doesn't get enough credit for showing coaches what players at this position could do. Lack of team success really hurt Ozzie Newsome.

Team successes at two different places is what has Shann9n Sharpe ahead of Tony Gonzalez so far. Gonzalez has yet to play on a team that won a playoff game while Sharpe played on three Super Bowl winners.

A short career kept Kellen Winslow from being in the all-time best discussion.

Another note, Mike Ditka once said John Mackey should have been the first tight end in the Hall of Fame instead of himself. Great sentiment but I have Ditka as slightly better.

Tackle -- the glamour position

If there actually is a glamour position on the offensive line it is tackle, especially left tackle. Here are the 40 greatest tackles to play professional football.

Rank, player, years, total
1. Art Shell, 1968-1982, 13849.7
2. Forrest Gregg, 1956-1971, 13810.9
3. Ron Yary, 1968-1982, 13484.1
4. Jim Tyrer, 1961-1974, 13475.6
5. Jim Parker, 1957-1967, 13458.8
6. Anthony Munoz, 1980-1992, 13324.4
7. Rosey Brown, 1953-1965, 12959.5
8. Lou Creekmur, 1950-1959, 12827.6
9. Rayfield Wright, 1967-1979, 12673.5
10. Orlando Pace, 1997-2007, 12439.0
11. Ron Mix, 1960-1971, 12070.3
12. Gary Zimmerman, 1986-1997, 12030.8
13. Joe Jacoby, 1981-1993, 11884.8
14. Jackie Slater, 1976-1995, 11827.2
15. Dick Schafrath, 1959-1971, 11810.6
16. Pat Donovan, 1975-1983, 11645.1
17. Joe Stydahar, 1936-1946, 11570.6
18. Willie Roaf, 1993-2005, 11567.8
19. Walter Jones, 1997-2007, 11546.3
20. Mike McCormack, 1951-1962, 11476.6
21. Richmond Webb, 1990-2002, 11362.2
22. Mike Kenn, 1978-1994, 11298.8
23. Bob Vogel, 1963-1972, 11295.9
24. Jonathan Ogden, 1996-2007, 11272.2
25. Lomas Brown, 1985-2002, 11139.6
26. Winston Hill, 1963-1977, 11039.8
27. Dan Dierdorf, 1971-1983, 11000.0
28. Bob Brown, 1964-1973, 10924.5
29. Russ Washington, 1968-1982, 10824.2
30. Grady Alderman, 1960-1974, 10514.7
31. Erik Williams, 1991-2001, 10505.5
32. Leon Gray, 1973-1983, 10349.2
33. George Kunz, 1969-1980, 10225.7
34. Bruce Armstrong, 1987-2000, 10210.4
35. Ernie McMillan, 1961-1975, 10092.0
36. Turk Edwards, 1932-1940, 9623.6
37. Stew Barber, 1961-1969, 9608.9
38. Bob St. Clair, 1953-1963, 9576.0
39. Marvin Powell, 1977-1987, 9481.8
40. Bruiser Kinard, 1938-1947, 9191.5

The top six tackles, including my favorite -- Anthony Munoz -- are almost interchangeable. In the end, longevity won out.

The top five in terms of best three years -- or their peak seasons?
1. Orlando Pace; 2. Jim Parker; 3. Art Shell; 4. Lou Creekmur; 5. Ron Yary.

The top five for a six year total?
1. Lou Creekmur; 2. Jim Parker; 3. Forrest Gregg; 4. Orlando Pace; 5. Anthony Munoz.

The best 10 year total?
1. Jim Parker; 2. Art Shell; 3. Forrest Gregg; 4. Anthony Munoz; 5. Jim Tyrer.

And for career the top five were:
1. Art Shell; 2. Forrest Gregg; 3. Ron Yary; 4. Jim Tyrer; 5. Jackie Slater.

Of the top six, Munoz clearly had the least help. Shell was on the Raiders dynasty of the 60s and 70s, Gregg on the Packers dynasty, Yary with the famous Vikings Super Bowl losers, Tyrer on the great AFL/AFC Chiefs teams and Parker with the Unitas-Lenny Moore Colts.

Munoz powered the Bengals to two Super Bowls and several other playoff appearances, but his teams weren't nearly as dominant. A shoulder injury also shortened his career, especially when compared to Shell. A short career also cost Jim Parker a spot on my first-team offense.

Final question, why isn't Jim Tyrer in the Hall of Fame? Can anyone explain that?

Greatest offensive guards ever

Iron men make all-time team.

Rank, player, years, total
1. Gene Upshaw, 1967-1981, 14530.7
2. Bruce Matthews, 1983-2001, 14403.8
3. Larry Little, 1967-1980, 13317.9
4. Danny Fortmann, 1936-1943, 13061.0
5. Tom Mack, 1966-1978, 12947.2
6. George Musso, 1933-1944, 12878.2
7. Randall McDaniel, 1988-2001, 12755.3
8. Will Shields, 1993-2006, 12641.5
9. John Hannah, 1973-1985, 12575.4
10. Gene Hickerson, 1958-1973, 12466.2
11. John Niland, 1966-1975, 12321.5
12. Ed White, 1969-1985, 12244.3
13. Ray Bray, 1939-1952, 12129.2
14. Alan Faneca, 1998-2007, 12075.8
15. Russ Grimm, 1981-1991, 12041.9
16. Nate Newton, 1986-1999, 12015.2
17. Jerry Kramer, 1958-1968, 11941.6
18. Steve Wisniewski, 1989-2001, 11859.0
19. Ed Budde, 1963-1976, 11837.4
20. Walt Sweeney, 1963-1975, 11780.5
21. Bob Kuechenberg, 1970-1983, 11728.9
22. Stan Jones, 1954-1966, 11672.2
23. Abe Gibron, 1949-1959, 11639.6
24. Mike Munchak, 1982-1993, 11558.9
25. Ed Newman, 1973-1984, 11511.0
26. Larry Allen, 1994-2007, 11471.3
27. Max Montoya, 1979-1994, 11182.0
28. Joe DeLamielleure, 1973-1985, 11019.9
29. Duane Putnam, 1952-1962, 10974.2
30. Ken Gray, 1958-1970, 10440.0
31. Bruno Banducci, 1944-1954, 10408.2
32. Bob Talamini, 1960-1968, 10388.9
33. Dennis Harrah, 1975-1987, 10303.8
34. Wayne Hawkins, 1960-1969, 10246.3
35. Billy Shaw, 1961-1969, 10187.7
36. Jim Ray Smith, 1956-1964, 10167.4
37. Kent Hill, 1979-1987, 9841.5
38. Harley Sewell, 1953-1963, 9719.7
39. Ruben Brown, 1995-2006, 9554.2
40. Bruce Bosley, 1956-1969, 9382.3

Few will argue that Gene Upshaw and Bruce Matthews deserve top mention. One guy farther down the list may be a surprise. John Hannah at No. 9.

Hannah played in 10 pro bowls and was first team all-pro nine times. The teams he played on though were good, never great. The only playoff wins he was a part of came in his final seasons when the 1985 Patriots snuck into the Super Bowl, where they were annhilated by the Super Bowl Shuffle Chicago Bears.

The Patriots offenses in those days also were good but not great, so Hannah didn't receive high point totals there either. His ranking shows, absent of statistics, how much lineman rely on the overall totals.

Of course, that shouldn't detract from Upshaw and Matthews. Upshaw was first team all-pro five times, missed one game in his career, blocked for one of the most potent offenses of the 1960s and 1970s and played in three Super Bowls, winning two.

Matthews was a nine-time all-pro who played in one Super Bowl and played every game in 18 of his 19 seasons. He thrived when the Oilers were both a grind-it-out offense with Earl Campbell and Eddie George and when they ran the run and shoot with Warren Moon.

Leading off with the snappers

Without further ado, here are the greatest centers in pro football history heading into the 2008-2009 season.

Rank, Center, Years, Total
1. Bulldog Turner, 1940-1952, 14731.3
2. Jim Otto, 1960-1974, 13951.9
3. Mike Webster, 1974-1990, 13828.3
4. Jim Ringo, 1953-1967, 12986.9
5. Mick Tingelhoff, 1962-1978, 12751.2
6. Frank Gatski, 1946-1957, 12692.1
7. Mel Hein, 1931-1945, 12665.7
8. Jim Langer, 1970-1981, 12260.8
9. Tom Nalen, 1994-2007, 12157.0
10. Dermontti Dawson, 1988-2000, 11811.5
11. Jay Hilgenberg, 1981-1993, 11768.3
12. Dwight Stephenson, 1980-1987, 11348.3
13. Bart Oates, 1985-1995, 11173.1
14. Rich Saul, 1970-1981, 11126.9
15. Mark Stepnoski, 1989-2001, 11116.5
16. Ray Wietecha, 1953-1962, 11091.4
17. Kevin Mawae, 1994-2007, 11080.0
18. Forrest Blue, 1968-1978, 10951.6
19. Len Hauss, 1964-1977, 10833.2
20. Jeff Van Note, 1969-1986, 9901.4

Since there are no individual statistics to crunch, to score well as an offensive lineman you have to have won a lot of honors, been on a number of winning even championship level teams and played for offenses that were among the top in the league in yards and points.

Turner fills every bill. He was first team all pro seven times. He played in four pro bowls and would have been in more if the game wasn't canceled for much of the 1940s.

His Chicago Bears suffered just two losing seasons in his 13 years, won four NFL titles and one runner-up finish, ironically in a year the team went undefeated.

Those Bears, with Sid Luckman at quarterback, perfected the T formation and Turner's teams lead the league in points in 1941, 1942, 1943, 1946 and 1947 and in offensive yards in 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1947 and 1949.

Turner, who was a standout linebacker with 17 career interceptions, also played every game of every season, except 1945 when he played in just two of 10 games. Without Turner for most of the year, the Bears went 3-7.

Stepping into the fire

I've gotten a few comments over some of my rankings. NASCAR fans didn't like the fact their drivers didn't rank very high on my worldwide rankings. Jordan fans didn't like his No. 3 ranking in basketball. I've gotten comments on the boxing rankings over guys who are in who shouldn't be and who aren't in and should be. I've even gotten a comment from someone who insisted Julio Cesar Chavez was the greatest boxer ever.

But I bet I get worse once all of my football rankings are out there. People really like other sports, but they love football. It's not the national pastime like baseball, but it is the national passion.

There are a lot of hurdles in ranking football players. Many positions have few statistics to judge. Individual success for quarterbacks and receivers is difficult if the offensive line doesn't do its job. Defensively, a guy can be great at sacking the quarterback but terrible against the run or a corner back can have several interceptions but still be a liability because he's gambling too much and giving up big plays.

The system I've created tries to measure what we can.

Individual honors -- all pro, pro bowls, MVP awards

Team success -- points for winning percentages, playoff wins and world titles.

Unit success -- points for where offenses rank in points and yardage for offensive players and for where defenses ranked in fewest points and fewest yards for defensive players.

Finally, durability. If a player played just 12 games out 16, they are credited with just 75 percent of what they would have received if they'd suited up all 16 games.

Then I started giving points for individual stats. The more stats available, the less the ranking is tied to team success. Quarterbacks have the most numbers to scrutinize, followed by the running backs, receivers and tightends. As you'll see, the top offensive lineman in my system were tied to the great teams.

In the next seven days, I'll release my rankings for the offense -- center, guards, tackles, tight ends, wide receivers, full back, half back and quarterback.

Then, hopefully, by the end of the season I'll finish up the defensive rankings. The fact that the NFL didn't recognize sacks as an official statistic until 1982 has slowed me down. There's a researcher named John Turney who building the sack stats before 1982 by reading the official game accounts for every team back to the beginning of the league. I talked to Turney and his work is far from done.

While I wait on Turney, I'm estimating sack totals from the pre-1982 era using statistics from the 20 years since it was established. It's far from perfect and certainly will undervalue some players and overvalue others.

My men's basketball rankings had the same problem. They didn't keep steals and blocks in the Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell eras. It's likely Chamberlain and Russell especially would have scored higher if they had.

Still, it's the best I can do.

Roger takes final bow in Nadal's season

Only Roger Federer could win one major title, make the finals of two others and the semifinals in a fourth and be able to call the year disappointing.

His demolition of Andy Murray wouldn't have rated a mention last year, but in 2008 Federer was finally beatable.

Not Monday. Perhaps he played more freely since Nadal wasn't on the other side of the net. In the end, that doesn't matter. Federer moved within one title of Pete Sampras, although in my system he already is the greatest player ever.

His win benefitted Nadal as well. Since a player receives bonus points based on the number of major titles won by players he has defeated, Federer's additional title added points to Nadal since he's beaten Federer in four finals.

That was enough to push Nadal to No. 9 with Andre Agassi soooo close in his sites. Nadal finished the year with 39 points, the eighth best year in open history.

Here's the top 10 greatest seasons:

1. Rod Laver, Australia, 1969, 55.00 (grand slam, still the gold standard)
2. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2007, 45.50
3. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2006, 45.00
4. Jimmy Connors, United States, 1974, 42.00
5. John McEnroe, United States, 1984, 41.00
6. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2004, 40.50
7. Mats Wilander, Sweden, 1988, 39.50
8. Rafael Nadal, Spain, 2008, 39.00
9. Pete Sampras, United States, 1995, 37.00
10. Bjorn Borg, Sweden, 1978, 37.00

Here's my updated rankings of the 32 greatest men's tennis players of the open era.

Rank, Player, Country, Years, Total
1. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2003-2008, 110.83
2. Pete Sampras, United States, 1990-2002, 92.63
3. Bjorn Borg, Sweden, 1974-1981, 90.42
4. Ivan Lendl, Czechoslovakia, 1981-1991, 86.07
5. Jimmy Connors, United States, 1973-1991, 85.57
6. John McEnroe, United States, 1979-1985, 81.72
7. Mats Wilander, Sweden, 1982-1988, 68.92
8. Andre Agassi, United States, 1988-2005, 65.32
9. Rafael Nadal, Spain, 2005-2008, 63.33
10. Boris Becker, Germany, 1985-1996, 62.07
11. Stefan Edberg, Sweden, 1985-1993, 59.37
12. Jim Courier, United States, 1991-1995, 52.67
13. Rod Laver, Australia, 1968-1971, 50.00
14. John Newcombe, Australia, 1968-1976, 48.60
15. Ken Rosewall, Australia, 1968-1974, 39.33
16. Guillermo Vilas, Argentina, 1975-1982, 36.12
17. Jan Kodes, Czechoslovakia, 1970-1973, 35.00
18. Arthur Ashe, United States, 1968-1977, 32.58
19. Lleyton Hewitt, Australia, 2000-2005, 30.17
20. Marat Safin, Russia, 2000-2008, 29.00
21. Illie Nastase, Romania, 1971-1976, 28.83
22. Gustavo Kuerten, Brazil, 1997-2001, 25.33
23. Pat Rafter, Australia, 1997-2001, 24.50
24. Stan Smith, United States, 1968-1980, 23.50
25. Yevgeny Kafelinikov, Russia, 1996-2000, 23.00
26. Pat Cash, Australia, 1984-1988, 22.00
27. Michael Chang, United States, 1989-1996, 21.67
28. Andy Roddick, United States, 2003-2007, 20.67
29. Sergei Bruguera, Spain, 1993-1997, 20.33
30. Goran Ivanisevic, Croatia, 1990-2001, 19.83
31. Michael Stich, Germany, 1991-1996, 18.83
32. Johan Kriek, South Africa, 1981-1982, 18.00

Serena finishes fine Williams summer

Venus and Serena Williams have been counted out for several years yet keep showing up at the events that really matter.

Today's win by Serena Williams means little in my standings. She remains No. 8 and has to win a couple more major titles to pass Evonne Goolagong Cawley.

Serena's wins, though, did add some more bonus points to her sister's total. Serena has only lost three times in major tournament singles finals, twice to Venus -- including Wimbledon this summer -- and once to Maria Sharapova.

The extra bonus points pushed Venus past Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario and into my all-time top 10.

Richard Williams is a nut, but he raised two of the greatest women's tennis players ever. That's amazing.

My updated top 32 women's tennis players:

Rank, Player, Country, Years, Points
1. Martina Navratilova, Czechoslovakia, 1974-2006, 165.63
2. Steffi Graf, Germany, 1985-1999, 154.13
3. Chris Evert-Lloyd, United States, 1971-1989, 113.40
4. Margaret Smith-Court, Australia, 1968-1975, 96.75
5. Monica Seles, Yugoslavia, 1989-2002, 92.85
6. Billie Jean King, United States, 1968-1983, 88.14
7. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, Australia, 1971-1980, 83.35
8. Serena Williams, United States, 1998-2008, 75.37
9. Martina Hingis, Switzerland, 1996-2006, 65.47
10. Venus Williams, United States, 1997-2008, 64.39
11. Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Spain, 1989-2000, 64.35
12. Justine Henin, Belgium, 2001-2007, 62.14
13. Hana Mandlikova, Czechoslovakia, 1980-1987, 47.65
14. Lindsay Davenport, United States, 1996-2005, 47.40
15. Maria Sharapova, Russia, 2004-2007, 32.29
16. Jennifer Capriati, United States, 2001-2002, 29.93
17. Virginia Wade, England, 1968-1977, 28.92
18. Tracy Austin, United States, 1979-1981, 28.55
19. Mary Pierce France, 1994-2005, 27.15
20. Gabriela Sabatini, Argentina, 1988-1991, 27.03
21. Amelie Mauresmo, France, 1999-2006, 25.00
22. Kim Clijsters, Belgium, 2001-2005, 23.76
23. Conchita Martinez, Spain, 1994-2000, 22.69
24. Jana Novotna, Czechoslovakia, 1991-1998, 21.55
25. Ann Haydon-Jones, England, 1968-1969, 20.17
26. Kerry Melville-Reid, Australia, 1970-1977, 15.61
27. Virginia Ruzici, Romania, 1978-1980, 15.40
28. Svetlana Kuznetsova, Russia, 2004-2007, 15.22
29. Ana Ivanovic, Serbia, 2007-2008, 14.76
30. Helena Sukova, Czechoslovakia, 1984-1993, 14.74
31. Mimi Jausovec, Yugoslavia, 1977-1983, 14.41
32. Mary-Joe Fernandez, United States, 1989-1997, 13.33

Historic year -- but in a different way

There was so much Grand Slam talk in the early part of the golf year.

Tiger Woods came in playing so well and the courses hosting the four majors set up perfectly for him.

Lorena Ochoa finally won her first major in 2007 and dominated the Kraft so completely writers talked about whether she was equal -- in her sport -- of Tiger.

In the end, though, Tiger won just the one major, although it was an impressive feat. Then he limped off with a broken leg and fresh questions on whether his violently strong swing is simply too much to stay healthy long-term.

Tiger already is the greatest player ever, according to my system. But his 14 professional majors and three U.S. Amateurs still trail Jack Nicklaus' 18 and two -- which is his ultimate goal. There has to be at least a small bit of doubt about the quest now considering how much trouble he is having with his left leg.

When Tiger exited stage left, Padraig Harrington entered stage right. By winning the final two majors of the year, Harrington soared up to No. 34 on my all-time list and No. 3 in the Tiger era (behind Phil Mickelson and Ernie Els but ahead of Vijay Singh).

As far as Ochoa, her run of dominance ended at the Kraft. The next three majors saw new faces -- Inbee Park, Yani Tseng and Ji Yai Shin claim titles.

It also marked the end of Annika Sorenstam's run. She announced her retirement and, if she sticks to it, she ends as the No. 2 golfer in women's history.

Here are the updated standings for both men and the women.

MEN
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Points
1. Tiger Woods, United States, 1994-2008, 182.01
2. Jack Nicklaus, United States, 1959-1998, 178.61
3. Ben Hogan, United States, 1939-1967, 145.30
4. Arnold Palmer, United States, 1954-1977, 127.39
5. Bobby Jones United States, 1919-1930, 122.57
6. Tom Watson, United States, 1974-2000, 118.94
7. Walter Hagen, United States, 1913-1940, 118.49
8. Gene Sarazen, United States, 1921-1956, 108.67
9. Gary Player, South Africa, 1956-1984, 108.41
10. Sam Snead, United States, 1937-1974, 103.41
11. Nick Faldo, England, 1978-2003, 101.33
12. Byron Nelson, United States, 1935-1955, 90.94
13. Lee Trevino, United States, 1967-1986, 82.67
14. J.H. Taylor, England, 1893-1925, 81.90
15. Harry Vardon, England, 1894-1922, 81.47
16. Phil Mickelson, United States, 1990-2008, 79.52
17. Seve Ballesteros, Spain, 1976-1991, 79.46
18. Greg Norman, Australia, 1979-2008, 77.48
19. Jim Barnes, Eng/U.S., 1913-1930, 77.25
20. Raymond Floyd, United States, 1965-1994, 75.77
21. Ernie Els, South Africa, 1992-2008, 72.96
22. James Braid, Scotland, 1894-1914, 71.88
23. Nick Price, Zimbabwe, 1982-2005, 69.27
24. Peter Thomson, Australia, 1951-1971, 67.91
25. Jimmy Demaret, United States, 1938-1962, 66.93
26. Cary Middlecoff, United States, 1948-1959, 66.40
27. Ralph Guldahl, United States, 1933-1941, 65.57
28. Bobby Locke, South Africa, 1936-1957, 65.24
29. Craig Wood, United States, 1929-1944, 64.70
30. Hale Irwin, United States, 1973-1993, 63.05
31. Julius Boros, United States, 1950-1973, 62.58
32. Billy Casper, United States, 1958-1976, 60.90
33. Leo Diegel, United States, 1920-1933, 60.81
34. Padraig Harrington, Ireland, 1997-2008, 60.23
35. Johnny Miller, United States, 1966-1985, 58.53
36. Ben Crenshaw, United States, 1972-1995, 58.13
37. Harold Hilton, England, 1892-1913, 57.08
38. Paul Runyan, United States, 1931-1951, 57.08
39. Vijay Singh, Fiji, 1993-2006, 56.74
40. Tom Weiskopf, United States, 1969-1982, 55.53
41. Henry Cotton, England, 1927-1958, 55.48
42. Denny Shute, United States, 1928-1950, 55.30
43. Payne Stewart, United States, 1985-1999, 55.07
44. Jock Hutchison, Scot/U.S., 1908-1928, 54.47
45. Bernhard Langer, Germany, 1981-2005, 54.19
46. Ted Ray, England, 1902-1925, 53.91
47. Lloyd Mangrum, United States, 1940-1956, 53.05
48. Horton Smith, United States, 1928-1954, 51.87
49. Henry Picard, United States, 1932-1950, 51.85
50. Hubert Green, United States, 1974-1989, 51.18
51. Lawson Little, United States, 1934-1951, 50.84
52. Mark O'Meara, United States, 1979-2003, 48.08
53. Alex Smith, Scot/US, 1898-1921, 48.03
54. Jim Furyk, United States, 1996-2008, 47.76
55. Larry Nelson, United States, 1979-1991, 47.75
56. Jose Maria Olazabul, Spain, 1984-2006, 47.67
57. Fred Couples, United States, 1980-2006, 45.63
58. Doug Ford, United States, 1955-1962, 44.72
59. Davis Love III, United States, 1995-2005, 44.67
60. Gene Littler, United States, 1953-1979, 44.65
61. Retief Goosen, South Africa, 1997-2007, 44.48
62. Tony Jacklin, England, 1967-1972, 44.42
63. Lanny Wadkins, United States, 1970-1993, 44.35
64. Curtis Strange, United States, 1980-1995, 44.32
65. Jim Ferrier, Aus/U.S., 1936-1964, 43.97
66. Johnny Farrell, United States, 1922-1937, 43.71
67. Harry Cooper, Eng/U.S., 1923-1942, 43.71
68. Jack Burke Jr., United States, 1951-1965, 43.34
69. Tommy Bolt, United States, 1952-1971, 42.83
70. Tom Kite, United States, 1970-2001, 42.83
71. David Graham, Australia, 1975-1990, 42.66
72. Charles Evans Jr., United States, 1909-1927, 42.13

WOMEN
Rank, Player, Years, Points
1. Mickey Wright, 1958-1973, 150.19
2. Annika Sorenstam, 1995-2008, 143.42
3. Karrie Webb, 1996-2008, 128.46
4. Pat Bradley, 1977-1996, 118.66
5. Kathy Whitworth, 1963-1984, 117.39
6. Patty Berg, 1937-1965, 112.83
7. Julie Inkster, 1984-2006, 107.39
8. Patty Sheehan, 1981-1997, 99.77
9. Louise Suggs, 1946-1969, 97.69
10. Amy Alcott, 1976-1994, 94.56
11. Sandra Haynie, 1963-1983, 92.15
12. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, 1940-1954, 91.11
13. Meg Mallon, 1990-2004, 86.76
14. Betsy Rawls, 1951-1969, 83.66
15. Laura Davies, 1987-2005, 81.77
16. Se Ri Pak, 1998-2008, 81.28
17. JoAnne Carner, 1970-1992, 80.33
18. Nancy Lopez, 1975-1997, 79.58
19. Donna Caponi, 1969-1982, 69.94
20. Beth Daniel, 1980-2006, 68.88
21. Lorena Ochoa, 2002-2008, 67.66
22. Susan Maxwell Berning, 1965-1979, 67.02
23. Mary Mills, 1963-1974, 65.27
24. Sandra Palmer, 1967-1986, 61.52
25. Dottie Pepper, 1988-2001, 60.04
26. Carol Mann, 1963-1975, 59.63
27. Marilyn Smith, 1963-1972, 59.60
28. Jan Stephenson, 1976-2000, 59.47
29. Hollis Stacy, 1976-1996, 56.85
30. Sally Little, 1975-1988, 56.17
31. Ayako Okamoto, 1983-1993, 56.00
32. Liselotte Neumann, 1988-2005, 52.38
33. Rosie Jones, 1983-2005, 50.75
34. Jane Geddes, 1985-1996, 50.01
35. Tammie Green, 1989-1998, 48.13
36. Clifford-Ann Creed, 1963-1976, 43.90
37. Kelly Robbins, 1994-2004, 43.85
38. Brandie Burton, 1991-2001, 42.54
39. Cristie Kerr, 1999-2008, 41.76
40. Jane Blalock, 1971-1980, 39.45
41. Beverly Hanson, 1955-1958, 39.33
41. Betty Jameson, 1942-1954, 39.33
43. Marlene Hagge, 1956-1972, 39.17
44. Sherri Steinhauer, 1992-2006, 38.63
45. Judy Kimball-Simon, 1962-1967, 38.56
46. Grace Park, 1999-2005, 38.55
47. Helen Alfreddson, 1992-2006, 35.87
48. Shirley Englehorn, 1963-1970, 35.14
49. Donna Andrews, 1992-1998, 35.02
50. Judy Rankin, 1964-1979, 34.07
51. Colleen Walker, 1987-1997, 33.23
52. Pat Hurst, 1996-2006, 32.84
53. Chris Johnson, 1983-2000, 32.79
54. Nancy Scranton, 1986-2000, 32.67

Cotto down but not out

The stars were all lined up for Miguel Angel Cotto. Beat Antonio Margarito and earn a megabucks battle with Oscar De La Hoya.

Considering Margarito had lost to Paul Williams and Cotto had spent the past two years building the reputation as the next big thing and it didn't seem too tall of an order.

Except Margarito was too tall and took it to Cotto from the opening bell until Cotto's trainers called things off in the 11th.

The loss was quite a tumble for Cotto but, thanks to an already long history as an alphabet soup champion, he remains in the top 100.

Margarito, thanks to some losses back in his teens before he knew what he was doing, still is still a long ways from the top 100 -- No. 161 -- but he has a chance to unify the welterweight title and if he can do that he'll zoom up the charts quickly.

As for Cotto, the future is unclear. He didn't really hurt Margarito so moving up in weight isn't really in the cards. He didn't do well enough to demand a rematch. Perhaps De La Hoya will fight him anyway, seeing an easier target than Margarito. In any case, he has to go back and prove himself again before he is considered an elite fighter.

Here's the new No. 60 to No. 100 in my system.

60. Emile Griffith, 1958-77, U.S., 49.298
61. Stanley Ketchel, 1904-10, U.S., 49.188
62. Vicente Saldivar, 1961-73, Mexico, 49.180
63. Kostya Tszyu, 1992-05, Australia, 49.095
64. Benny Leonard, 1911-32, U.S., 49.003
65. Dariusz Michalczewski, 1991-05, Poland, 48.180
66. Naseem Hamed, 1992-02, United Kingdom, 48.120
67. Nino Benvenuti, 1961-71, Italy, 48.115
68. Erik Morales, 1993-07, Mexico, 47.965
69. Sam Langford, 1902-26, U.S., 47.957
70. Jackie "Kid" Berg, 1924-45, U.S., 47.913
71. Ike Williams, 1940-55, U.S., 47.728
72. Michael Carbajal, 1989-99, Canada, 47.705
73. Chiquita Gonzalez, 1984-95, Mexico, 47.555
74. Pernell Whitaker, 1984-01, U.S., 47.483
75. Hector Camacho, 1980-05, Puerto Rico, 47.446
76. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, France, 47.282
77. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, U.S., 47.103
78. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, Panama, 47.096
79. James Toney, 1988-07, U.S., 47.000
80. Maxie Rosenbloom, 1923-39, U.S., 46.836
81. Myung Woo Yuh, 1982-93, South Korea, 46.653
82. Sugar Shane Mosley, 1993-07, U.S., 46.650
83. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, U.S., 46.639
84. Ratanapol Sor Vorapin, 1990-08, Thailand, 46.551
85. Juan Carlos Gomez, 1995-07, Cuba, 46.546
86. Marco Antonio Barrera, 1989-07, Mexico, 46.502
87. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, United Kingdom, 46.370
88. Sven Ottke, 1997-04, Germany, 46.315
89. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, Puerto Rico, 46.195
90. Miguel Angel Cotto, 2001-08, Puerto Rico, 46.156
91. Jorge Arce, 1996-07, Mexico, 46.003
92. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, 1994-07, Thailand, 45.983
93. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, U.S., 45.975
94. Fabrice Tiozzo, 1988-06, France, 45.857
95. Bob Montgomery, 1938-50, U.S., 45.701
96. Arthur Abraham, 2003-08, Germany, 45.627
97. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, Argentina, 45.531
98. Mickey Walker, 1919-35, U.S., 45.531
99. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, U.S., 45.464
100. Miguel Canto, 1969-82, Mexico, 45.406

Is Roger really the greatest?

Back when Pete Sampras was king I'd occasionally find someone to argue about whether or not he was the greatest player in the open era.

My argument was it depended on where the mythical greatest match was played. If Pete played Andre Agassi at Wimbledon, well Pete is going to win that match. But if they play at the French Open, well Sampras was clueless on clay. The one thing Agassi has going for him in the all-time best player argument was that he was one of the rare players to win all four majors.

So I set up a round robin to see if we matched up the 11 greatest men's players -- that's the number of that have really set themselves ahead of the crowd -- and the 12 greatest women's players at each of the four venues what would their overall records be.

Some of the greatest men and women players have been overwhelmingly good at one tournament and not very competitive at another. How would they fare overall?

Here are the top 11 men's tennis players according to the system I've written about before. They are in the order I have them ranked in my all-time system.

Roger Federer, Pete Sampras, Bjorn Borg, Ivan Lendl, Jimmy Connors, John McEnroe, Mats Wilander, Andre Agassi, Boris Becker, Stefan Edberg and Rafael Nadal.

For the women, the field was:

Martina Navratilova, Steffi Graf, Chris Evert-Lloyd, Monica Seles, Margaret Smith-Court, Billie Jean King, Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, Serena Williams, Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Martina Hingis, Venus Williams and Justine Henin.

Determining who won was easy. The player with the most career points at a particular tournament. In some cases it was close. Ivan Lendl earned 56 points at the French Open in my system and Mats Wilander earned 55. When I matched those two, Lendl earned the Win for the French because of the one point.

So how did it turn out? There were some surprises on the men's side.

Sampras, 25-15
Federer, 25-15
Lendl, 24-16
Agassi, 23-17
Borg, 22-18
Connors, 21-19
McEnroe, 18-22
Wilander, 17-23
Edberg, 17-23
Becker, 15-25
Nadal, 14-26

Going in I thought Federer would have the edge because he's reached three French finals and dominated in Australia, Wimbledon and the U.S. Open. But Federer lost two matches to Agassi, two to Sampras, two to Borg, two to Connors and two to Wilander and one each to the rest.

Of course, Federer has a few years left to add points so perhaps he'll gain enough at Wimbledon to turn around mythical losses to Borg at Wimbeldon or Agassi in Australia. Barring some sudden loss of form he'll most likely overtake Sampras in this ranking as well. Still, I was somewhat surprised.

The other major surprise. Agassi at No. 4. His career grand slam was important as was the emphasis he put on the Australian Open. Played in January, it's a grinder's tournament. Borg and McEnroe put no emphasis on the tournament and Sampras and McEnroe skipped it several times.

Not Agassi. He won it four times, including recording his lone grand slam final win over Sampras in Australia in 1995. So 10 of his 23 wins come from his dominance there.

On the women's side, it was the same top 3 dominating, but Billie Jean King moved up a bit:

Navratilova, 40-4
Graf, 37-7
Evert, 33-11
King, 23-21
Goolagong, 21-23
Smith-Court, 20-24
Seles, 19-25
S. Williams, 16-28
Sanchez-Vicario, 8-20
Henin, 7-21
V. Williams, 6-22
Hingis, 5-23

In the cases of Navratilova and Graf, we can list all of their losses.

First off, Navratilova won 3 of 4 against Steffi, losing only at the French. Graff's other four losses were to Chris Evert at the French and U.S. Open, Margaret Smith-Court at the Australian Open and Evonne Goolagong at the Australian.

Navratilova's other three losses were to Evert and Sanchez-Vicario at the French and Goolagong at the Australian.

All hail Harrington

When looking for the next great European, most people didn't look at Padraig Harrington.

Instead, talk centered around Sergio Garcia and perhaps Lee Westwood, with Colin Montgomerie's star-crossed career tossed in.

Well, with today's grind-it-out win in the British Open -- his second straight -- Harrington has entered my all-time golf playday.

My list includes the 72 greatest men's golfers and Harrington's moving in moved Jerry Pate out of the playday.

I have to admit though, I was rooting for Greg Norman. The final round of the 1996 Masters was perhaps the most painful thing I ever watched on television. It was like a slow-motion car accident. Eventually, I had to turn it off, only occasionally watching again to see if Norman could right the ship.

Today, he could have written a better ending to his career. It wasn't to be, like so many other near misses. Still, he gathered enough points to move up one spot in the rankings.

Here are the updated rankings:

1. Tiger Woods, United States, 1994-2008, 182.01
2. Jack Nicklaus, United States, 1959-1998, 178.61
3. Ben Hogan, United States, 1939-1967, 145.30
4. Arnold Palmer, United States, 1954-1977, 127.39
5. Bobby Jones, United States, 1919-1930, 122.57
6. Tom Watson, United States, 1974-2000, 118.94
7. Walter Hagen, United States, 1913-1940, 118.49
8. Gene Sarazen, United States, 1921-1956, 108.67
9. Gary Player, South Africa, 1956-1984, 108.41
10. Sam Snead, United States, 1937-1974, 103.41
11. Nick Faldo, England, 1978-2003, 101.33
12. Byron Nelson, United States, 1935-1955, 90.94
13. Lee Trevino, United States, 1967-1986, 82.67
14. J.H. Taylor, England, 1893-1925, 81.90
15. Harry Vardon, England, 1894-1922, 81.47
16. Seve Ballesteros, Spain, 1976-1991, 79.46
17. Phil Mickelson, United States, 1990-2008, 79.35
18. Greg Norman, Australia, 1979-2008, 77.48
19. Jim Barnes, Eng/U.S., 1913-1930, 77.25
20. Raymond Floyd, United States, 1965-1994, 75.77
21. Ernie Els, South Africa, 1992-2008, 72.96
22. James Braid, Scotland, 1894-1914, 71.88
23. Nick Price, Zimbabwe, 1982-2005, 69.27
24. Peter Thomson, Australia, 1951-1971, 67.91
25. Jimmy Demaret, United States, 1938-1962, 66.93
26. Cary Middlecoff, United States, 1948-1959, 66.40
27. Ralph Guldahl, United States, 1933-1941, 65.57
28. Bobby Locke, South Africa, 1936-1957, 65.24
29. Craig Wood, United States, 1929-1944, 64.70
30. Hale Irwin, United States, 1973-1993, 63.05
31. Julius Boros, United States, 1950-1973, 62.58
32. Billy Casper, United States, 1958-1976, 60.90
33. Leo Diegel, United States, 1920-1933, 60.81
34. Johnny Miller, United States, 1966-1985, 58.53
35. Ben Crenshaw, United States, 1972-1995, 58.13
36. Harold Hilton, England, 1892-1913, 57.08
36. Paul Runyan, United States, 1931-1951, 57.08
38. Vijay Singh, Fiji, 1993-2006, 56.74
39. Tom Weiskopf, United States, 1969-1982, 55.53
40. Henry Cotton, England, 1927-1958, 55.48
41. Denny Shute, United States, 1928-1950, 55.30
42. Payne Stewart, United States, 1985-1999, 55.07
43. Jock Hutchison, Scot/U.S., 1908-1928, 54.47
44. Bernhard Langer, Germany, 1981-2005, 54.19
45. Ted Ray, England, 1902-1925, 53.91
46. Lloyd Mangrum, United States, 1940-1956, 53.05
47. Horton Smith, United States, 1928-1954, 51.87
48. Henry Picard, United States, 1932-1950, 51.85
49. Hubert Green, United States, 1974-1989, 51.18
50. Lawson Little, United States, 1934-1951, 50.84
51. Mark O'Meara, United States, 1979-2003, 48.08
52. Alex Smith, Scot/US, 1898-1921, 48.03
53. Jim Furyk, United States, 1996-2008, 47.76
54. Larry Nelson, United States, 1979-1991, 47.75
55. Jose Maria Olazabul, Spain, 1984-2006, 47.67
56. Padraig Harrington, Ireland, 1997-2008, 46.29
57. Fred Couples, United States, 1980-2006, 45.63
58. Doug Ford, United States, 1955-1962, 44.72
59. Davis Love III, United States, 1995-2005, 44.67
60. Gene Littler, United States, 1953-1979, 44.65
61. Retief Goosen, South Africa, 1997-2007, 44.48
62. Tony Jacklin, England, 1967-1972, 44.42
63. Lanny Wadkins, United States, 1970-1993, 44.35
64. Curtis Strange, United States, 1980-1995, 44.32
65. Jim Ferrier, Aus/U.S., 1936-1964, 43.97
66. Johnny Farrell, United States, 1922-1937, 43.71
67. Harry Cooper, Eng/U.S., 1923-1942, 43.71
68. Jack Burke Jr., United States, 1951-1965, 43.34
69. Tommy Bolt, United States, 1952-1971, 42.83
70. Tom Kite, United States, 1970-2001, 42.83
71. David Graham, Australia, 1975-1990, 42.66
72. Charles Evans Jr., United States, 1909-1927, 42.13

Nadal climbing fast ... and a revision

I was unable to watch all of today's Wimbledon men's tennis finals. I saw a lot of the third and fourth sets and very little of the fifth.

So I missed out on what many are saying is the best match perhaps ever. I saw enough to know a lot of people underestimated the potential of Rafael Nadal.

That won't happen again. He now has five major titles, four on his favored clay, and now this win over a player who is among the three best grass court players ever -- with Pete Sampras and Bjorn Borg.

Because my system is weighted toward dominance, and Federer has three of the six greatest years ever already on his record, Roger already is the greatest men's player ever in the open era. Nadal, though, has made a remarkable climb and has now moved into the top 10.

Here are the 32 greatest men's players of the open era:

Rank, Player, Country, Years, Total
1. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2003-2008, 106.50
2. Pete Sampras, United States, 1990-2002, 92.63
3. Bjorn Borg, Sweden, 1974-1981, 90.42
4. Ivan Lendl, Czechoslovakia, 1981-1991, 86.07
5. Jimmy Connors, United States, 1973-1991, 85.57
6. John McEnroe, United States, 1979-1992, 81.72
7. Mats Wilander, Sweden, 1982-1988, 68.92
8. Andre Agassi, United States, 1988-2005, 65.32
9. Boris Becker, Germany, 1985-1996, 62.07
10. Rafael Nadal, Spain, 2005-2008, 61.33
11. Stefan Edberg, Sweden, 1985-1993, 59.37
12. Jim Courier, United States, 1991-1995, 52.67
13. Rod Laver, Australia, 1968-1971, 50.00
14. John Newcombe, Australia, 1968-1976, 48.60
15. Ken Rosewall, Australia, 1968-1974, 39.33
16. Guillermo Vilas, Argentina, 1975-1982, 36.12
17. Jan Kodes, Czechoslovakia, 1970-1973, 35.00
18. Arthur Ashe, United States, 1968-1977, 32.58
19. Lleyton Hewitt, Australia, 2000-2005, 30.17
20. Marat Safin, Russia, 2000-2008, 29.00
21. Illie Nastase, Romania, 1971-1976, 28.83
22. Gustavo Kuerten, Brazil, 1997-2001, 25.33
23. Pat Rafter, Australia, 1997-2001, 24.50
24. Stan Smith, United States, 1968-1980, 23.50
25. Yevgeny Kafelinikov, Russia, 1996-2000, 23.00
26. Pat Cash, Australia, 1984-1988, 22.00
27. Michael Chang, United States, 1989-1996, 21.67
28. Andy Roddick, United States, 2003-2007, 20.67
29. Sergei Bruguera, Spain, 1993-1997, 20.33
30. Goran Ivanisevic, Croatia, 1990-2001, 19.83
31. Michael Stich, Germany, 1991-1996, 18.83
32. Johan Kriek, South Africa, 1981-1982, 18.00

Now, yesterday I published my updated list of the 32 greatest women's players. I was working on a different way to rank players -- which I'll put out later this week -- when I discovered some of my career totals were off.

Last year I added points for semifinals and inserted some rows on my spreadsheet. That altered the totals on several players. After fixing the mistake I found Venus Williams is still just outside the all-time top 10. I think she'll manage to make at least one more final and move back in to the 10 best. But for now here are the corrected standings:

Rank, Player, Country, Years, Points
1. Martina Navratilova, Czechoslovakia, 1974-2006, 165.63
2. Steffi Graf, Germany, 1985-1999, 154.13
3. Chris Evert, United States, 1971-1989, 113.40
4. Margaret Smith-Court, Australia, 1968-1975, 96.75
5. Monica Seles, Yugoslavia, 1989-2002, 92.85
6. Billie Jean King, United States, 1968-1983, 88.14
7. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, Australia, 1971-1980, 83.35
8. Serena Williams, United States, 1998-2008, 71.00
9. Martina Hingis, Switzerland, 1996-2006, 65.47
10. Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Spain, 1989-2000, 64.35
11. Venus Williams, United States, 1997-2008, 63.77
12. Justine Henin, Belgium, 2001-2007, 62.14
13. Hana Mandlikova, Czechoslovakia, 1980-1987, 47.65
14. Lindsay Davenport, United States, 1996-2005, 47.40
15. Maria Sharapova, Russia, 2004-2007, 31.97
16. Jennifer Capriati, United States, 2001-2002, 29.93
17. Virginia Wade, England, 1968-1977, 28.92
18. Tracy Austin, United States, 1979-1981, 28.55
19. Mary Pierce, France, 1994-2005, 27.15
20. Gabriela Sabatini, Argentina, 1988-1991, 27.03
21. Amelie Mauresmo, France, 1999-2006, 25.00
22. Kim Clijsters, Belgium, 2001-2005, 23.76
23. Conchita Martinez, Spain, 1994-2000, 22.69
24. Jana Novotna, Czechoslovakia, 1991-1998, 21.55
25. Ann Haydon-Jones, England, 1968-1969, 20.17
26. Kerry Melville-Reid, Australia, 1970-1977, 15.61
27. Virginia Ruzici, Romania, 1978-1980, 15.40
28. Svetlana Kuznetsova, Russia, 2004-2007, 15.22
29. Ana Ivanovic, Serbia, 2007-2008, 14.76
30. Helena Sukova, Czechoslovakia, 1984-1993, 14.74
31. Mimi Jausovec, Yugoslavia, 1977-1983, 14.41
32. Mary-Joe Fernandez, United States, 1989-1997, 13.33

All time greats? The Williams sisters already are

TV announcer Mary Carillo said a curious thing in this morning's Serena-Venus Wimbledon final.

She said she thought both would be all-time greats by now.

I understand her point. She thought both Serena and Venus Williams would have collected more than the 15 major titles they have between them.

Their careers have been derailed a few times by outside interests and injuries.

Still, each of them have either made a Grand Slam final or won a Grand Slam doubles title in 10 different years since 1998. Only Serena had a Navratilova or Graf type run where she won everything in sight.

In my point system, thanks to Venus' win this morning, now both of them are among the 10 greatest womens players in the open era. And Venus needs just one more title to move up to No. 9. Just think where Venus would be if Serena had not taken up tennis. She is now just 2-5 against Serena in Grand Slam finals and 5-1 against everyone else.

People for years have been writing the two off and they keep coming back. I still see 10 individual titles as possibilities for both.

Here's my updated list of the 32 greatest women's tennis players:

Rank, Player, Country, Years, Points
1. Martina Navratilova, Czechoslovakia, 1974-2006, 165.63
2. Steffi Graf, Germany, 1985-1999, 154.13
3. Chris Evert-Lloyd, United States, 1971-1989, 113.40
4. Margaret Smith-Court, Australia, 1968-1975, 96.75
5. Monica Seles, Yugoslavia, 1989-2002, 92.85
6. Billie Jean King, United States, 1968-1983, 88.14
7. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, Australia, 1971-1980, 80.35
8. Serena Williams, United States, 1998-2008, 70.93
9. Martina Hingis, Switzerland, 1996-2006, 65.47
10. Venus Williams, United States, 1997-2008, 63.47
11. Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Spain, 1989-2000, 63.14
12. Justine Henin, Belgium, 2001-2007, 62.14
13. Hana Mandlikova, Czechoslovakia, 1980-1987, 47.65
14. Lindsay Davenport, United States, 1996-2005, 47.40
15. Maria Sharapova, Russia, 2004-2007, 31.97
16. Jennifer Capriati, United States, 2001-2002, 29.93
17. Virginia Wade, England, 1968-1977, 28.92
18. Tracy Austin, United States, 1979-1981, 28.55
19. Mary Pierce, France, 1994-2005, 27.15
20. Gabriela Sabatini, Argentina, 1988-1991, 27.03
21. Amelie Mauresmo, France, 1999-2006, 25.00
22. Kim Clijsters, Belgium, 2001-2005, 23.76
23. Conchita Martinez, Spain, 1994-2000, 22.69
24. Jana Novotna, Czechoslovakia, 1991-1998, 21.55
25. Ann Haydon-Jones, England, 1968-1969, 20.17
26. Kerry Melville-Reid, Australia, 1970-1977, 15.61
27. Virginia Ruzici, Romania, 1978-1980, 15.40
28. Svetlana Kuznetsova, Russia, 2004-2007, 15.22
29. Ana Ivanovic, Serbia, 2007-2008, 14.76
30. Helena Sukova, Czechoslovakia, 1984-1993, 14.74
31. Mimi Jausovec, Yugoslavia, 1977-1983, 14.41
32. Mary-Joe Fernandez, United States, 1989-1997, 13.33

NBA's top 100 -- debating Duncan

If you've read my earlier posts with the top 20 players at each position, you may have already tried to figure out my top 100 men's pro basketball players.

But when compiling my top 100, I adjust the list by position. Many of the things statistically tracked are just easier for centers or power forwards. They play down low and get more rebounds. They naturally block more shots and, being closer to the rim, shoot a higher percentage.

But a team with five centers is not going to win against a balanced squad. Sure, Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem and Bill Russell will pound you down low. But who would bring the ball up the floor? Who would hit the outside jumpers to free up the lane?

To even out statistical biases, I have a position adjustment that takes the top point totals from the five greatest players at each position and averages them out.

Centers had the highest total and receive no position points. Power forwards had the second highest and received 380.4 points. The next highest was small forward, then point guards and finally shooting guards.

The NBA of the past 10 years has been filled with great power forwards, point guards and shooting guards. Centers and small forwards have been rare. So the position points for power forwards, point guards and shooting guards have gotten smaller.

That means players long since retired can switch places in the standings, which is what happened to Bill Russell and Karl Malone. The continued greatness of Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki and Tim Duncan have cut down on the power forward bonus points, knocking him below Bill Russell. Considering Russell's teams won 11 NBA titles and Malone's won none, this didn't keep me up at night.

Remember, with players such as Russell and Chamberlain, the NBA didn't keep steals and blocked shots until the end or after their careers. I estimated those stats for old-time stars based on All-Pro and MVP votes versus blocks and steals totals for stars in the past 30 years. This likely vastly underestimated their totals, but it's the best I can do without actual statistics.

Speaking of Duncan, who is in the title. As you'll see below, I have him passing Larry Bird for No. 5 player all-time. I know that'll rankle Celtics fans. But Duncan's teams have won four titles without a player -- other than the fading David Robinson -- likely to make the basketball hall of fame. He has had very, very good teammates in Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli and Robert Horry. But these players are not Dennis Johnson, Kevin McHale and even Bill Walton.

Without further discussion, here are the 100 greatest pro men's basketball players:

Rank, player, years, points
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1969-1989, 22675.9
2. Wilt Chamberlain, 1959-1973, 21728.5
3. Michael Jordan, 1984-2003, 21397.6
4. Julius Erving, 1971-1987, 20665.5
5. Tim Duncan, 1997-2008, 19828.1
6. Larry Bird, 1979-1992, 19823.6
7. Hakeem Olajuwon, 1984-2002, 19820.9
8. Bill Russell, 1956-1969, 19741.4
9. Karl Malone 1985-2004, 19731.4
10. Oscar Robertson, 1960-1974, 19288.4
11. Magic Johnson, 1979-1996, 19183.0
12. Bob Cousy, 1950-1970, 19057.0
13. Kevin Garnett, 1996-2008, 19037.7
14. Shaquille O'Neal, 1992-2008, 18894.9
15. Bob Pettit, 1954-1965, 18627.9
16. Jerry West, 1960-1974, 18477.6
17. David Robinson, 1989-2003, 18417.4
18. Moses Malone, 1974-1995, 18098.5
19. George Mikan, 1948-1956, 18049.0
20. Dolph Schayes, 1949-1964, 18028.8
21. Elgin Baylor, 1958-1972, 17985.5
22. Kobe Bryant, 1996-2008, 17933.1
23. Elvin Hayes, 1968-1984, 17608.3
24. John Stockton, 1984-2003, 17474.0
25. Charles Barkley, 1984-2000, 17363.2
26. Gary Payton, 1990-2007, 17353.0
27. Artis Gilmore, 1971-1988, 17249.4
28. Rick Barry, 1965-1980, 17091.2
29. Scottie Pippen, 1987-2004, 17017.7
30. Jason Kidd, 1994-2008, 16876.6
31. George Gervin, 1972-1986, 16842.6
32. John Havlicek, 1962-1978, 16821.9
33. Pat Ewing, 1985-2002, 16568.1
34. Allen Iverson, 1996-2008, 16481.4
35. Dirk Nowitzki, 1998-2008, 16281.9
36. Isiah Thomas, 1981-1993, 16267.8
37. Clyde Drexler, 1983-1998, 16123.7
38. George McGinnis, 1971-1982, 15878.9
39. Walt Frazier, 1967-1980, 15677.9
40. Tracey McGrady, 1997-2008, 15567.4
41. Steve Nash, 1996-2008, 15404.1
42. Paul Arizin, 1950-1962, 15296.5
43. Bob McAdoo, 1972-1986, 15283.7
44. Connie Hawkins, 1967-1976, 15268.0
45. Billy Cunningham, 1965-1976, 15220.8
46. Dave Cowens, 1970-1983, 15084.4
47. Dominique Wilkins, 1982-1999, 14992.9
48. Alex English, 1976-1991, 14918.0
49. Dan Issel, 1970-1985, 14668.7
50. Chris Webber, 1993-2008, 14613.4
51. Bob Lanier, 1970-1984, 14551.1
52. Mo Cheeks, 1978-1993, 14376.2
53. Mel Daniels, 1967-1977, 14369.7
54. Tim Hardaway, 1989-2003, 14350.3
55. Bill Sharman, 1950-1961, 14349.0
56. Hal Greer, 1958-1973, 14305.9
57. Dennis Johnson, 1976-1990, 14304.3
58. Robert Parish, 1976-1997, 14289.3
59. Willis Reed, 1964-1974, 14256.7
60. Gus Williams, 1975-1987, 14189.3
61. Kevin Johnson, 1987-2000, 14085.2
62. Vince Carter, 1998-2008, 13933.2
63. Jerry Lucas, 1963-1974, 13907.4
64. LeBron James, 2003-2008, 13859.0
65. Grant Hill, 1994-2008, 13858.4
66. Kevin McHale, 1980-1993, 13749.9
67. Cliff Hagan, 1956-1970, 13735.1
68. Alonzo Mourning, 1992-2008, 13702.7
69. Dave Bing, 1966-1978, 13700.1
70. Walter Davis, 1977-1992, 13665.8
71. Tiny Archibald, 1970-1984, 13576.5
72. Shawn Marion, 1999-2008, 13566.5
73. Ray Allen, 1996-2008, 13558.4
74. Nate Thurmond, 1963-1977, 13536.0
75. Lenny Wilkens, 1960-1975, 13514.3
76. Bobby Jones, 1974-1986, 13496.5
77. Sydney Moncrief, 1979-1991, 13473.1
78. Terry Cummings, 1982-2000, 13387.5
79. Bob Dandridge, 1969-1982, 13377.1
80. Norm Nixon, 1977-1989, 13372.3
81. James Worthy, 1982-1994, 13356.6
82. David Thompson, 1975-1984, 13279.6
83. Wes Unseld, 1968-1981, 13209.0
84. Marques Johnson, 1977-1990, 13195.5
85. Spencer Haywood, 1969-1983, 13131.2
86. Reggie Miller, 1987-2005, 13094.2
87. Dave DeBusschere, 1962-1974, 13025.8
88. Adrian Dantley, 1976-1991, 13007.4
89. Gail Goodrich, 1965-1979, 13001.2
90. Elton Brand, 1999-2008, 12988.9
91. Dikembe Mutombo, 1991-2008, 12983.7
92. Lou Dampier, 1967-1979, 12901.0
93. Maurice Lucas, 1974-1988, 12898.2
94. Sam Jones, 1957-1969, 12868.2
95. Buck Williams, 1981-1998, 12837.0
96. Walt Bellamy, 1961-1975, 12718.2
97. Chris Mullin, 1985-2001, 12703.0
98. Latrell Sprewell, 1992-2005, 12699.8
99. Bernard King, 1977-1993, 12641.3
100. Alvin Robertson, 1984-1996, 12632.2