If you have looked at the top players at each of the positions, you may have pieced together the top 61 players -- which is one player for every year there has been a top professional league. But I adjust the overall rankings by position. I take the top five scores of each position, average them out and then add points to positions that are lower than the leading average.
The top five centers easily outscore the top five shooting guards. Centers collect more rebounds and blocked shots and score more on inside baskets, all things that give them a natural advantage in my scoring system.
Since we are in a lull for great centers, the scoring gap is narrowing every year, especially at power forward.
Here are the top 61 players in pro hoops history starting from the bottom and the active players are in bold:
Rank, player, years, raw score, adjusted, total
61. Kevin Johnson, 1987-2000, 13653.7 + 525.9 = 14179.6
60. Gus Williams, 1975-1987, 13733.0 + 525.9 = 14258.9
59. Robert Parish, 1976-1997, 14340.4 + 0 = 14340.4
58. Dennis Johnson, 1976-1990, 13731.9 + 630.9 = 14362.8
57. Hal Greer, 1958-1973, 13769.2 + 630.9 = 14400.1
56. Bill Sharman, 1950-1961, 13802.7 + 630.9 = 14433.6
55. Mo Cheeks, 1978-1993, 13909.0 + 525.9 = 14434.9
54. Willis Reed, 1964-1974, 14458.4 + 0 = 14458.4
53. Tim Hardaway, 1989-2003, 13990.9 + 525.9 = 14516.8
52. Mel Daniels, 1967-1977, 14557.3 + 0 = 14557.3
51. Bob Lanier, 1970-1984, 14649 + 0 = 14649.0
50. Chris Webber, 1993-2007, 14324.4 + 386.2 = 14710.6
49. Dan Issel, 1970-1985, 14331.7 + 386.2 = 14717.9
48. Alex English, 1976-1991, 14486.0 + 507.1 = 14993.1
47. Dominique Wilkins, 1982-1999, 14542.8 + 507.1 = 15049.9
46. Steve Nash, 1996-2007, 14707.9 + 525.9 = 15233.8
45. Dave Cowens, 1970-1983, 15258.6 + 0 = 15258.6
44. Billy Cunningham, 1965-1976, 14869.1 + 507.1 = 15376.2
43. Paul Arizin, 1950-1962, 14906.3 + 507.1 = 15413.4
42. Connie Hawkins, 1967-1976, 14956.0 + 507.1 = 15463.1
41. Tracey McGrady, 1997-2007, 14877.8 + 630.9 = 15508.7
40. Bob McAdoo, 1972-1986, 15574 + 0 = 15574.0
39. Walt Frazier, 1967-1980, 15210.5 + 525.9 = 15736.4
38. Dirk Nowitzki, 1998-2007, 15511.3 + 386.2 = 15897.5
37. George McGinnis, 1971-1982, 15661.4 + 386.2 = 16047.6
36. Clyde Drexler, 1983-1998, 15594.0 + 630.9 = 16224.9
35. Isiah Thomas, 1981-1993, 15847.2 + 525.9 = 16373.1
34. Allen Iverson, 1996-2007, 15950.0 + 525.9 = 16475.9
33. Pat Ewing, 1985-2002, 16609.2 + 0 = 16609.2
32. John Havlicek, 1962-1978, 16248.4 + 507.1 = 16755.5
31. Jason Kidd, 1994-2007, 16302.3 + 525.9 = 16828.2
30. George Gervin, 1972-1986, 16304.3 + 630.9 = 16935.2
29. Scottie Pippen, 1987-2004, 16536.3 + 507.1 = 17043.4
28. Rick Barry, 1965-1980, 16677.6 + 507.1 = 17184.7
27. Kobe Bryant, 1996-2007, 16652.3 + 630.9 = 17283.2
26. Artis Gilmore, 1971-1988, 17375.7 + 0 = 17375.7
25. Gary Payton, 1990-2007, 16925.2 + 525.9 = 17451.1
24. Charles Barkley, 1984-2000, 17139.1 + 386.2 = 17525.3
23. John Stockton, 1984-2003, 17006.1 + 525.9 = 17532.0
22. Elvin Hayes, 1968-1984, 17347.0 + 386.2 = 17733.2
21. Elgin Baylor, 1958-1972, 17552.2 + 507.1 = 18059.3
20. Dolph Schayes, 1949-1964, 17694.8 + 386.2 = 18081.0
19. George Mikan, 1948-1956, 18123.1 + 0 = 18123.1
18. Moses Malone, 1974-1995, 18246.1 + 0 = 18246.1
17. David Robinson, 1989-2003, 18490.3 + 0 = 18490.3
16. Jerry West, 1960-1974, 17946.0 + 630.9 = 18576.9
15. Bob Pettit, 1954-1965, 18297.2 + 386.2 = 18683.4
14. Kevin Garnett, 1996-2007, 18560.1 + 386.2 = 18946.3
13. Shaquille O'Neal, 1992-2007, 18958.9 + 0 = 18958.9
12. Bob Cousy, 1950-1970, 18554.9 + 525.9 = 19080.8
11. Magic Johnson, 1979-1996, 18692.0 + 525.9 = 19217.9
10. Oscar Robertson, 1960-1974, 18753.0 + 525.9 = 19278.9
9. Bill Russell, 1956-1969, 19765.2 + 0 = 19765.2
8. Karl Malone, 1985-2004, 19407.7 + 386.2 = 19793.9
7. Tim Duncan, 1997-2007, 19462.6 + 386.2 = 19848.8
6. Larry Bird, 1979-1992, 19386.9 + 507.1 = 19894.0
5. Hakeem Olajuwon, 1984-2002, 19935.7 + 0 = 19935.7
4. Julius Erving, 1971-1987, 20247.8 + 507.1 = 20754.9
3. Michael Jordan, 1984-2003, 20809.7 + 630.9 = 21440.6
2. Wilt Chamberlain, 1959-1973, 21697.2 + 0 = 21697.2
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1969-1989, 22721.5 + 0 = 22721.5
Nash and McGradey made the leaps onto the list. Again, in McGrady's case, I just ommitted him last year. Duncan jumped past several people to hit third on the list and may get up to Dr. J's level.
Shaq is winding down and may not climb much further. He even could be passed by Kevin Garnett. For many, that would be a crime considering he's taken teams to four titles and Garnett has gotten the Timberwolves out of the first round once. But Shaq has played along side Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade. Kevin Garnett's best teammate was Stephan Marbury.
The other player in the top 61 who may make the top 10? Kobe Bryant -- love him or hate him.
Friday, August 31, 2007
Tuesday, August 21, 2007
The top 10 centers -- no change
After dominating the NBA landscape for four decades, the role of the center has dramatically declined since the heyday of Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Pat Ewing.
Only one of the centers on my list of 10 greatest is still active, Shaquille O'Neal, and he's on his way out.
Of course, the center position isn't totally dead. Yao Ming, if he can stay healthy, perhaps could work his way on to the list, and Dwight Howard is the next big thing for the pivot.
For now, here are the 10 best:
Player, years, points
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1969-1989, 22721.5
2. Wilt Chamberlain, 1959-1973, 21697.2
3. Hakeem Olajuwon, 1984-2002, 19935.7
4. Bill Russell, 1956-1969, 19765.2
5. Shaquille O'Neal, 1992-2007, 18958.9
6. David Robinson, 1989-2003, 18490.3
7. Moses Malone, 1974-1995, 18246.1
8. George Mikan, 1948-1956, 18123.1
9. Artis Gilmore, 1971-1988, 17375.7
10. Pat Ewing, 1985-2002, 16609.2
Wilt was a colossus but there is truth to the critics who say he didn't deliver in the playoffs. He rarely met his season averages in the postseason. Abdul-Jabbar on the other hand routinely exceeded his regular season stats in the playoffs. When you are as close as these two, that was enough to tip the equation in Kareem's favor.
There are still those that choose Russell as the greatest player ever. He is the greatest winner, but his teams were loaded and he was very limited offensively. The more rounded Olajuwon outscored him in a variety of ways.
Both Russell and Chamberlain were hurt by the fact the NBA didn't keep stats on blocks and steals in their careers. I had to use estimated numbers based on their first-time All-NBA finishes of the centers that came after them. If Russell was as good as people say, his block numbers most likely were off the charts and could have pushed him ahead of Hakeem. We'll never know for sure.
David Robinson and Moses Malone illustrate how your eyes can lie. I saw Moses in his prime when he took the Rockets and 76ers to the finals and absolutely dominated Abdul-Jabbar. I would never have picked Robinson ahead of Moses.
But Robinson played at his peak much longer than Moses, who had five top-shelf seasons and then dropped down a tier. Also, Moses didn't block shots or have many steals. Robinson filled up a boxscore in a lot more ways.
Only one of the centers on my list of 10 greatest is still active, Shaquille O'Neal, and he's on his way out.
Of course, the center position isn't totally dead. Yao Ming, if he can stay healthy, perhaps could work his way on to the list, and Dwight Howard is the next big thing for the pivot.
For now, here are the 10 best:
Player, years, points
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1969-1989, 22721.5
2. Wilt Chamberlain, 1959-1973, 21697.2
3. Hakeem Olajuwon, 1984-2002, 19935.7
4. Bill Russell, 1956-1969, 19765.2
5. Shaquille O'Neal, 1992-2007, 18958.9
6. David Robinson, 1989-2003, 18490.3
7. Moses Malone, 1974-1995, 18246.1
8. George Mikan, 1948-1956, 18123.1
9. Artis Gilmore, 1971-1988, 17375.7
10. Pat Ewing, 1985-2002, 16609.2
Wilt was a colossus but there is truth to the critics who say he didn't deliver in the playoffs. He rarely met his season averages in the postseason. Abdul-Jabbar on the other hand routinely exceeded his regular season stats in the playoffs. When you are as close as these two, that was enough to tip the equation in Kareem's favor.
There are still those that choose Russell as the greatest player ever. He is the greatest winner, but his teams were loaded and he was very limited offensively. The more rounded Olajuwon outscored him in a variety of ways.
Both Russell and Chamberlain were hurt by the fact the NBA didn't keep stats on blocks and steals in their careers. I had to use estimated numbers based on their first-time All-NBA finishes of the centers that came after them. If Russell was as good as people say, his block numbers most likely were off the charts and could have pushed him ahead of Hakeem. We'll never know for sure.
David Robinson and Moses Malone illustrate how your eyes can lie. I saw Moses in his prime when he took the Rockets and 76ers to the finals and absolutely dominated Abdul-Jabbar. I would never have picked Robinson ahead of Moses.
But Robinson played at his peak much longer than Moses, who had five top-shelf seasons and then dropped down a tier. Also, Moses didn't block shots or have many steals. Robinson filled up a boxscore in a lot more ways.
Monday, August 20, 2007
Top 10 power forwards -- a new No. 1
This is the golden age of the No. 4 position and the best to ever play the position is active right now. Here are the 10 best power forwards in pro basketball history.
1. Tim Duncan, 1997-2007, 19462.6
2. Karl Malone, 1985-2004, 19407.7
3. Kevin Garnett, 1996-2007, 18560.1
4. Bob Pettit, 1954-1965, 18297.2
5. Dolph Schayes, 1949-1964, 17694.8
6. Elvin Hayes, 1968-1984, 17347.0
7. Charles Barkley, 1984-2000, 17139.1
8. George McGinnis, 1971-1982, 15661.4
9. Dirk Nowitzki, 1998-2007, 15511.3
10. Dan Issel, 1970-1985, 14331.7
Not only are three of the top 10 playing right now but three more are among the top 17 (Chris Webber, Shawn Marion and Elton Brand). There was a shuffling at the top and the bottom of the top 10.
Duncan, fresh off his fourth world title, passed Malone, the ultimate workhorse. In terms of filling a boxscore, Duncan doesn't do that as well as No. 3 Kevin Garnett, but he's helped tremendously by his play in the playoffs, where he consistently performs above his season averages, and the Spurs' team success.
I write this even though I'm one who puts a mental asterisk by title No. 4. I didn't agree with the suspensions that essentially handed the Spurs the series this year against the Suns and now the whole Tim Donaghy mess brings game four into doubt.
That being said, Duncan is THE player of the late 90s-2000s. Even Shaq fans are having trouble arguing against that.
At the bottom end, Chris Webber played so poorly this year, he actually lost career points and fell behind Dan Issel. It's clear to everyone but Webber that it's time to retire.
Marion at No. 14 seems to be the next best bet to get on this list. He's really a small forward but he's a 4 in the Suns system and that's where he's had his best years.
1. Tim Duncan, 1997-2007, 19462.6
2. Karl Malone, 1985-2004, 19407.7
3. Kevin Garnett, 1996-2007, 18560.1
4. Bob Pettit, 1954-1965, 18297.2
5. Dolph Schayes, 1949-1964, 17694.8
6. Elvin Hayes, 1968-1984, 17347.0
7. Charles Barkley, 1984-2000, 17139.1
8. George McGinnis, 1971-1982, 15661.4
9. Dirk Nowitzki, 1998-2007, 15511.3
10. Dan Issel, 1970-1985, 14331.7
Not only are three of the top 10 playing right now but three more are among the top 17 (Chris Webber, Shawn Marion and Elton Brand). There was a shuffling at the top and the bottom of the top 10.
Duncan, fresh off his fourth world title, passed Malone, the ultimate workhorse. In terms of filling a boxscore, Duncan doesn't do that as well as No. 3 Kevin Garnett, but he's helped tremendously by his play in the playoffs, where he consistently performs above his season averages, and the Spurs' team success.
I write this even though I'm one who puts a mental asterisk by title No. 4. I didn't agree with the suspensions that essentially handed the Spurs the series this year against the Suns and now the whole Tim Donaghy mess brings game four into doubt.
That being said, Duncan is THE player of the late 90s-2000s. Even Shaq fans are having trouble arguing against that.
At the bottom end, Chris Webber played so poorly this year, he actually lost career points and fell behind Dan Issel. It's clear to everyone but Webber that it's time to retire.
Marion at No. 14 seems to be the next best bet to get on this list. He's really a small forward but he's a 4 in the Suns system and that's where he's had his best years.
Saturday, August 18, 2007
Top 10 small forwards unchanged
The last decade has been the decade of the power forward and point guard. The only great small forward to come along since Larry Bird retired has been Grant Hill and his ankle injury has kept him out of the top 10.
Here are the 10 greatest small forwards:
1. Julius Erving, 1971-1987, 20247.8
2. Larry Bird, 1979-1992, 19386.9
3. Elgin Baylor, 1958-1972, 17552.2
4. Rick Barry, 1965-1980, 16677.6
5. Scottie Pippen, 1987-2004, 16536.3
6. John Havlicek, 1962-1978, 16248.4
7. Connie Hawkins, 1967-1976, 14956.0
8. Paul Arizin, 1950-1962, 14906.3
9. Billy Cunningham, 1965-1976, 14869.1
10. Dominique Wilkins, 1982-1999, 14542.8
Hill is at No. 12 and it's possible, if his ankle holds up for a couple more seasons, that he could pass Alex English and Wilkins to get into the top 10. More realisticly is in about three seasons LeBron James will break into the rankings and eventually challenge Bird and Dr. J. James is already ranked No. 20 (ahead of Chris Mullin and Bernard King) with just four seasons played.
Any NBA fan my age (38) or younger believes Bird was better than Erving. They are all missing how dominant Dr. J. was in the ABA. Even putting a 10 percent discount on his stats in that league didn't lower his score to Bird's. When Bird was battling Erving in the 1980s, Dr. J. was already on his way down.
Here are the 10 greatest small forwards:
1. Julius Erving, 1971-1987, 20247.8
2. Larry Bird, 1979-1992, 19386.9
3. Elgin Baylor, 1958-1972, 17552.2
4. Rick Barry, 1965-1980, 16677.6
5. Scottie Pippen, 1987-2004, 16536.3
6. John Havlicek, 1962-1978, 16248.4
7. Connie Hawkins, 1967-1976, 14956.0
8. Paul Arizin, 1950-1962, 14906.3
9. Billy Cunningham, 1965-1976, 14869.1
10. Dominique Wilkins, 1982-1999, 14542.8
Hill is at No. 12 and it's possible, if his ankle holds up for a couple more seasons, that he could pass Alex English and Wilkins to get into the top 10. More realisticly is in about three seasons LeBron James will break into the rankings and eventually challenge Bird and Dr. J. James is already ranked No. 20 (ahead of Chris Mullin and Bernard King) with just four seasons played.
Any NBA fan my age (38) or younger believes Bird was better than Erving. They are all missing how dominant Dr. J. was in the ABA. Even putting a 10 percent discount on his stats in that league didn't lower his score to Bird's. When Bird was battling Erving in the 1980s, Dr. J. was already on his way down.
Thursday, August 16, 2007
Top 10 shooting guards
Here are the top 10 shooting guards. There is one new player in the rankings and another player climbing fast.
Player, years, points
1. Michael Jordan, 1984-2003, 20809.7
2. Jerry West, 1960-1974, 17946.0
3. Kobe Bryant, 1996-2007, 16652.3
4. George Gervin, 1972-1986, 16304.3
5. Clyde Drexler, 1983-1998, 15594.0
6. Tracey McGrady, 1997-2007, 14877.8
7. Bill Sharman, 1950-1961, 13802.7
8. Hal Greer, 1958-1973, 13769.2
9. Dennis Johnson, 1976-1990, 13731.9
10. Walter Davis, 1977-1992, 13313.6
Tracey McGrady knocked Sydney Moncrief from the top 10. I actually forgot to rate McGrady last year so it's possible he was already a top 10 guard. If you look at the list, these are all big shooting guards. The classic spot-up shooter type like Reggie Miller just doesn't fare well (No. 15) because all they do is score. The guys on this list either contributed with rebounds or a little as playmakers. Gervin and McGrady especially because they spent a lot of time as small forwards.
Bryant passed Gervin this year and considering he only is 29 and has several prime years left, he should pass Jerry West and perhaps even challenge Jordan.
Just on the outside of the rankings are Vince Carter at No. 11 -- he passed Moncrief as well -- and Ray Allen at No. 13.
Player, years, points
1. Michael Jordan, 1984-2003, 20809.7
2. Jerry West, 1960-1974, 17946.0
3. Kobe Bryant, 1996-2007, 16652.3
4. George Gervin, 1972-1986, 16304.3
5. Clyde Drexler, 1983-1998, 15594.0
6. Tracey McGrady, 1997-2007, 14877.8
7. Bill Sharman, 1950-1961, 13802.7
8. Hal Greer, 1958-1973, 13769.2
9. Dennis Johnson, 1976-1990, 13731.9
10. Walter Davis, 1977-1992, 13313.6
Tracey McGrady knocked Sydney Moncrief from the top 10. I actually forgot to rate McGrady last year so it's possible he was already a top 10 guard. If you look at the list, these are all big shooting guards. The classic spot-up shooter type like Reggie Miller just doesn't fare well (No. 15) because all they do is score. The guys on this list either contributed with rebounds or a little as playmakers. Gervin and McGrady especially because they spent a lot of time as small forwards.
Bryant passed Gervin this year and considering he only is 29 and has several prime years left, he should pass Jerry West and perhaps even challenge Jordan.
Just on the outside of the rankings are Vince Carter at No. 11 -- he passed Moncrief as well -- and Ray Allen at No. 13.
Tuesday, August 14, 2007
Updated greatest pro basketball players
Who are the best pro basketball players in NBA, ABA and even ABL history? I'll update last year's lists starting by position. There were some major changes in three positions.
First, here are the 10 greatest point guards:
Player, years, points
1. Oscar Robertson, 1960-1974, 18753.0
2. Magic Johnson, 1979-1996, 18692.0
3. Bob Cousy, 1950-1970, 18554.9
4. John Stockton, 1984-2003, 17006.1
5. Gary Payton, 1990-2007, 16925.2
6. Jason Kidd, 1994-2007, 16302.3
7. Allen Iverson, 1996-2007, 15950.0
8. Isiah Thomas, 1981-1993, 15847.2
9. Walt Frazier, 1967-1980, 15210.5
10. Steve Nash, 1996-2007, 14707.9
Nash's third straight near MVP season for Phoenix helped him jump five spots and bumb Tim Hardaway from the top 10. Iverson passed Isaiah Thomas but lost ground to Jason Kidd. Gary Payton is one more good season away from passing John Stockton but Payton actually lost points this season. Stockton seems safe at No. 4.
First, here are the 10 greatest point guards:
Player, years, points
1. Oscar Robertson, 1960-1974, 18753.0
2. Magic Johnson, 1979-1996, 18692.0
3. Bob Cousy, 1950-1970, 18554.9
4. John Stockton, 1984-2003, 17006.1
5. Gary Payton, 1990-2007, 16925.2
6. Jason Kidd, 1994-2007, 16302.3
7. Allen Iverson, 1996-2007, 15950.0
8. Isiah Thomas, 1981-1993, 15847.2
9. Walt Frazier, 1967-1980, 15210.5
10. Steve Nash, 1996-2007, 14707.9
Nash's third straight near MVP season for Phoenix helped him jump five spots and bumb Tim Hardaway from the top 10. Iverson passed Isaiah Thomas but lost ground to Jason Kidd. Gary Payton is one more good season away from passing John Stockton but Payton actually lost points this season. Stockton seems safe at No. 4.
Monday, August 13, 2007
The march goes on for Woods
Tiger is not be as dominant as he was in 2000 and 2001. But each time you begin to wonder if his goal of passing Jack Nicklaus' haul of 18 professional majors and 20 overall majors he rises up and walks off with another.
The old Tiger would have stepped on the gas and won the PGA by 8 shots. This one just held his ground and let others fall away.
No matter. Woods now has 13 professional majors and the three U.S. amateurs and is just four away from catching Nicklaus.
Since he has won five of the last 12 and he has made several lifestyle adjustments, now the betting is whether he'll catch Nicklaus by the time he is 35.
How good is Woods. He finished first in one major and second in two others in 2007, good for 38.5 points in my system, and that's just his fifth best year.
Like Roger Federer in tennis, Tiger may set marks no one will ever be able to reach.
With just the U.S. Amateur left for 2007, here's the updated Golf's Ultimate Playday:
On the first tee
1. Jack Nicklaus, United States, 1959-1998, 858.59
2. Tiger Woods, United States, 1994-2007, 717.92
3. Ben Hogan, United States, 1939-1967, 583.95
4. Walter Hagen, United States, 1913-1940, 517.29
On the second tee
5. Arnold Palmer, United States, 1954-1977, 515.33
6. Tom Watson, United States, 1974-2000, 493.36
7. Gary Player, South Africa, 1956-1984, 477.43
8. Bobby Jones, United States, 1919-1930, 477.25
On the third tee
9. Sam Snead, United States, 1937-1974, 464.41
10. Gene Sarazen, United States, 1921-1956, 458.63
11. Nick Faldo, England, 1978-2003, 401.50
12. Byron Nelson, United States, 1935-1955, 367.54
On the fourth tee
13. Harry Vardon, England, 1894-1922, 351.50
14. J.H. Taylor, England, 1893-1925, 348.75
15. Lee Trevino, United States, 1967-1986, 334.54
16. Seve Ballesteros, Spain, 1976-1991, 321.08
On the fifth tee
17. Phil Mickelson, United States, 1990-2006, 317.81
18. Greg Norman, Australia, 1979-1999, 316.82
19. Raymond Floyd, United States, 1965-1994, 309.32
20. James Braid, Scotland, 1894-1914, 301.63
On the sixth tee
21. Jim Barnes, Eng/U.S., 1913-1930, 301.11
22. Ernie Els, South Africa, 1992-2007, 300.90
23. Peter Thomson, Australia, 1951-1971, 277.10
24. Nick Price, Zimbabwe, 1982-2005, 267.98
On the seventh tee
25. Jimmy Demaret, United States, 1938-1962, 263.44
26. Bobby Locke, South Africa, 1936-1957, 259.75
27. Julius Boros, United States, 1950-1973, 252.92
28. Cary Middlecoff, United States, 1948-1959, 252.50
On the eighth tee
29. Craig Wood, United States, 1929-1944, 251.94
30. Billy Casper, United States, 1958-1976, 251.21
31. Ben Crenshaw, United States, 1972-1995, 243.52
32. Hale Irwin, United States, 1973-1993, 243.38
On the ninth tee
33. Ralph Guldahl, United States, 1933-1941, 237.13
34. Leo Diegel, United States, 1920-1933, 235.56
35. Willie Anderson Jr., Scot/U.S., 1898-1908, 223.50
36. Vijay Singh, Fiji, 1993-2006, 223.00
37. Tom Weiskopf, United States, 1969-1982, 222.43
38. Lloyd Mangrum, United States, 1940-1956, 221.60
39. Harold Hilton, England, 1892-1913, 221.50
40. Johnny Miller, United States, 1966-1985, 221.38
On the 10th tee
41. Paul Runyan, United States, 1931-1951, 221.13
42. Denny Shute, United States, 1928-1950, 219.25
43. Payne Stewart, United States, 1985-1999, 216.50
44. Henry Cotton, England, 1927-1958, 210.92
On the 11th tee
45. Jock Hutchison, Scot/U.S., 1908-1928, 210.25
46. Bernhard Langer, Germany, 1981-2005, 209.58
47. Ted Ray, England, 1902-1925, 204.88
48. Tommy Armour, Scot/US, 1925-1937, 202.63
On the 12th tee
49. Horton Smith, United States, 1928-1954, 198.31
50. Alex Smith, Scot/US, 1898-1921, 193.69
51. Henry Picard, United States, 1932-1950, 192.44
52. Hubert Green, United States, 1974-1989, 190.00
On the 13th tee
53. Mark O'Meara, United States, 1979-2003, 188.70
54. Tom Kite, United States, 1970-2001, 187.94
55. Fred Couples, United States, 1980-2006, 187.70
56. Lawson Little, United States, 1934-1951, 187.33
On the 14th tee
57. Jose Maria Olazabul, Spain, 1984-2006, 187.10
58. Lanny Wadkins, United States, 1970-1993, 185.50
59. Gene Littler, United States, 1953-1979, 184.00
60. Jim Furyk, United States, 1996-2007, 180.45
On the 15th tee
61. Davis Love III, United States, 1995-2005, 177.89
62. Jim Ferrier, Aus/U.S., 1936-1964, 176.50
63. Larry Nelson, United States, 1979-1991, 173.75
64. Johnny Farrell, United States, 1922-1937, 170.46
On the 16th tee
65. Curtis Strange, United States, 1980-1995, 170.17
66. Jack Burke Jr., United States, 1951-1965, 169.95
67. Harry Cooper, Eng/U.S., 1923-1942, 169.50
68. Doug Ford, United States, 1955-1962, 168.50
69. Tommy Bolt, United States, 1952-1971, 166.63
70. Retief Goosen, South Africa, 1997-2007, 166.50
71. Tony Jacklin, England, 1967-1972, 164.50
72. David Graham, Australia, 1975-1990, 163.70
The old Tiger would have stepped on the gas and won the PGA by 8 shots. This one just held his ground and let others fall away.
No matter. Woods now has 13 professional majors and the three U.S. amateurs and is just four away from catching Nicklaus.
Since he has won five of the last 12 and he has made several lifestyle adjustments, now the betting is whether he'll catch Nicklaus by the time he is 35.
How good is Woods. He finished first in one major and second in two others in 2007, good for 38.5 points in my system, and that's just his fifth best year.
Like Roger Federer in tennis, Tiger may set marks no one will ever be able to reach.
With just the U.S. Amateur left for 2007, here's the updated Golf's Ultimate Playday:
On the first tee
1. Jack Nicklaus, United States, 1959-1998, 858.59
2. Tiger Woods, United States, 1994-2007, 717.92
3. Ben Hogan, United States, 1939-1967, 583.95
4. Walter Hagen, United States, 1913-1940, 517.29
On the second tee
5. Arnold Palmer, United States, 1954-1977, 515.33
6. Tom Watson, United States, 1974-2000, 493.36
7. Gary Player, South Africa, 1956-1984, 477.43
8. Bobby Jones, United States, 1919-1930, 477.25
On the third tee
9. Sam Snead, United States, 1937-1974, 464.41
10. Gene Sarazen, United States, 1921-1956, 458.63
11. Nick Faldo, England, 1978-2003, 401.50
12. Byron Nelson, United States, 1935-1955, 367.54
On the fourth tee
13. Harry Vardon, England, 1894-1922, 351.50
14. J.H. Taylor, England, 1893-1925, 348.75
15. Lee Trevino, United States, 1967-1986, 334.54
16. Seve Ballesteros, Spain, 1976-1991, 321.08
On the fifth tee
17. Phil Mickelson, United States, 1990-2006, 317.81
18. Greg Norman, Australia, 1979-1999, 316.82
19. Raymond Floyd, United States, 1965-1994, 309.32
20. James Braid, Scotland, 1894-1914, 301.63
On the sixth tee
21. Jim Barnes, Eng/U.S., 1913-1930, 301.11
22. Ernie Els, South Africa, 1992-2007, 300.90
23. Peter Thomson, Australia, 1951-1971, 277.10
24. Nick Price, Zimbabwe, 1982-2005, 267.98
On the seventh tee
25. Jimmy Demaret, United States, 1938-1962, 263.44
26. Bobby Locke, South Africa, 1936-1957, 259.75
27. Julius Boros, United States, 1950-1973, 252.92
28. Cary Middlecoff, United States, 1948-1959, 252.50
On the eighth tee
29. Craig Wood, United States, 1929-1944, 251.94
30. Billy Casper, United States, 1958-1976, 251.21
31. Ben Crenshaw, United States, 1972-1995, 243.52
32. Hale Irwin, United States, 1973-1993, 243.38
On the ninth tee
33. Ralph Guldahl, United States, 1933-1941, 237.13
34. Leo Diegel, United States, 1920-1933, 235.56
35. Willie Anderson Jr., Scot/U.S., 1898-1908, 223.50
36. Vijay Singh, Fiji, 1993-2006, 223.00
37. Tom Weiskopf, United States, 1969-1982, 222.43
38. Lloyd Mangrum, United States, 1940-1956, 221.60
39. Harold Hilton, England, 1892-1913, 221.50
40. Johnny Miller, United States, 1966-1985, 221.38
On the 10th tee
41. Paul Runyan, United States, 1931-1951, 221.13
42. Denny Shute, United States, 1928-1950, 219.25
43. Payne Stewart, United States, 1985-1999, 216.50
44. Henry Cotton, England, 1927-1958, 210.92
On the 11th tee
45. Jock Hutchison, Scot/U.S., 1908-1928, 210.25
46. Bernhard Langer, Germany, 1981-2005, 209.58
47. Ted Ray, England, 1902-1925, 204.88
48. Tommy Armour, Scot/US, 1925-1937, 202.63
On the 12th tee
49. Horton Smith, United States, 1928-1954, 198.31
50. Alex Smith, Scot/US, 1898-1921, 193.69
51. Henry Picard, United States, 1932-1950, 192.44
52. Hubert Green, United States, 1974-1989, 190.00
On the 13th tee
53. Mark O'Meara, United States, 1979-2003, 188.70
54. Tom Kite, United States, 1970-2001, 187.94
55. Fred Couples, United States, 1980-2006, 187.70
56. Lawson Little, United States, 1934-1951, 187.33
On the 14th tee
57. Jose Maria Olazabul, Spain, 1984-2006, 187.10
58. Lanny Wadkins, United States, 1970-1993, 185.50
59. Gene Littler, United States, 1953-1979, 184.00
60. Jim Furyk, United States, 1996-2007, 180.45
On the 15th tee
61. Davis Love III, United States, 1995-2005, 177.89
62. Jim Ferrier, Aus/U.S., 1936-1964, 176.50
63. Larry Nelson, United States, 1979-1991, 173.75
64. Johnny Farrell, United States, 1922-1937, 170.46
On the 16th tee
65. Curtis Strange, United States, 1980-1995, 170.17
66. Jack Burke Jr., United States, 1951-1965, 169.95
67. Harry Cooper, Eng/U.S., 1923-1942, 169.50
68. Doug Ford, United States, 1955-1962, 168.50
69. Tommy Bolt, United States, 1952-1971, 166.63
70. Retief Goosen, South Africa, 1997-2007, 166.50
71. Tony Jacklin, England, 1967-1972, 164.50
72. David Graham, Australia, 1975-1990, 163.70
Saturday, August 11, 2007
Boxing's top 100 -- final 25
Here are the No. 100 down to No. 76 on my revised rankings as well as the point totals of some fighters on the outside looking in.
100. Sung Kil Moon, 1987-93, South Korea, 46.248
99. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, U.S., 46.288
98. Jimmy Wilde, 1910-23, United Kingdom, 46.333
97. Orlando Canizales, 1984-99, U.S., 46.371
95. (tie) Mickey Walker, 1919-35, U.S., 46.395
95. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, Argentina, 46.395
94. Sven Ottke, 1997-04, Germany, 46.465
93. Tommy Burns, 1900-20, U.S., 46.513
92. Jorge Arce, 1996-07, Mexico, 46.547
91. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, U.S., 46.576
90. William Joppy, 1993-07, U.S., 46.714
89. Bob Montgomery, 1938-50, U.S., 46.769
88. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, 1994-07, Thailand, 46.803
87. Marco Antonio Barrera, 1989-07, Mexico, 46.847
86. Myung Woo Yuh, 1982-93, South Korea, 46.932
85. Maxie Rosenbloom, 1923-39, U.S., 47.121
84. Miguel Angel Cotto, 2001-07, Puerto Rico, 47.229
83. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, United Kingdom, 47.245
82. Ricky Hatton, 1997-07, United Kingdom, 47.348
81. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, Puerto Rico, 47.383
80. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, France, 47.400
79. James Toney, 1988-07, U.S., 47.418
78. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, U.S., 47.662
77. Mike Tyson, 1985-05, U.S., 47.784
76. Joe Calzaghe, 1993-07, United Kingdom, 47.789
Tyson's sad ending to his career cost him points at every turn. He will gain some ground when Larry Holmes goes into the Hall and maybe if they elect Trevor Berbick -- hey, there are weaker Hall of Famers, why is Jack Sharkey in?
William Joppy is a curious one. He has lost to Felix Trinidad, Bernard Hopkins and Jermaine Taylor, but he held the WBA Middleweight Title for five years -- along the way beating an ancient Roberto Duran. That's enough to sneak in the top 100 for now.
There are several fighters just outside the top 100 who may fight their way in or move up as people are elected to the Hall.
* Ratanapol Sor Vorapin (No. 101) is just 33 and is fighting again after losing to Ricardo Lopez in 2000 and retiring for five years. He's fighting nobodies though and will need to get back to the championship level to move up.
* Pernell Whitaker (No. 102) will gain some points from his draw with Julio Cesar Chavez when Chavez is inducted.
* Mikkel Kessler (No. 107) takes on No. 76 Joe Calzaghe on Nov. 11.
In fact, there are several fights scheduled this year that will have an impact on the top 100.
Aug. 18, Arthur Abraham (No. 124) vs. Khoren Gevor.
Sept. 22, Vitali Klitschko (No. 126) vs. Jameel McCline.
Oct. 6, Marco Antonio Barrera (No. 87) vs. Manny Pacquiao (No. 164)
Oct. 13, Evander Holyfield (No. 67) vs. Sultan Ibragimov.
Nov. 10, Sugar Shane Mosley (No. 62) vs. Miguel Angel Cotto (No. 84)
Dec. 8, Floyd Mayweather Jr. (No. 48) vs. Ricky Hatton (No. 82).
100. Sung Kil Moon, 1987-93, South Korea, 46.248
99. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, U.S., 46.288
98. Jimmy Wilde, 1910-23, United Kingdom, 46.333
97. Orlando Canizales, 1984-99, U.S., 46.371
95. (tie) Mickey Walker, 1919-35, U.S., 46.395
95. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, Argentina, 46.395
94. Sven Ottke, 1997-04, Germany, 46.465
93. Tommy Burns, 1900-20, U.S., 46.513
92. Jorge Arce, 1996-07, Mexico, 46.547
91. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, U.S., 46.576
90. William Joppy, 1993-07, U.S., 46.714
89. Bob Montgomery, 1938-50, U.S., 46.769
88. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, 1994-07, Thailand, 46.803
87. Marco Antonio Barrera, 1989-07, Mexico, 46.847
86. Myung Woo Yuh, 1982-93, South Korea, 46.932
85. Maxie Rosenbloom, 1923-39, U.S., 47.121
84. Miguel Angel Cotto, 2001-07, Puerto Rico, 47.229
83. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, United Kingdom, 47.245
82. Ricky Hatton, 1997-07, United Kingdom, 47.348
81. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, Puerto Rico, 47.383
80. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, France, 47.400
79. James Toney, 1988-07, U.S., 47.418
78. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, U.S., 47.662
77. Mike Tyson, 1985-05, U.S., 47.784
76. Joe Calzaghe, 1993-07, United Kingdom, 47.789
Tyson's sad ending to his career cost him points at every turn. He will gain some ground when Larry Holmes goes into the Hall and maybe if they elect Trevor Berbick -- hey, there are weaker Hall of Famers, why is Jack Sharkey in?
William Joppy is a curious one. He has lost to Felix Trinidad, Bernard Hopkins and Jermaine Taylor, but he held the WBA Middleweight Title for five years -- along the way beating an ancient Roberto Duran. That's enough to sneak in the top 100 for now.
There are several fighters just outside the top 100 who may fight their way in or move up as people are elected to the Hall.
* Ratanapol Sor Vorapin (No. 101) is just 33 and is fighting again after losing to Ricardo Lopez in 2000 and retiring for five years. He's fighting nobodies though and will need to get back to the championship level to move up.
* Pernell Whitaker (No. 102) will gain some points from his draw with Julio Cesar Chavez when Chavez is inducted.
* Mikkel Kessler (No. 107) takes on No. 76 Joe Calzaghe on Nov. 11.
In fact, there are several fights scheduled this year that will have an impact on the top 100.
Aug. 18, Arthur Abraham (No. 124) vs. Khoren Gevor.
Sept. 22, Vitali Klitschko (No. 126) vs. Jameel McCline.
Oct. 6, Marco Antonio Barrera (No. 87) vs. Manny Pacquiao (No. 164)
Oct. 13, Evander Holyfield (No. 67) vs. Sultan Ibragimov.
Nov. 10, Sugar Shane Mosley (No. 62) vs. Miguel Angel Cotto (No. 84)
Dec. 8, Floyd Mayweather Jr. (No. 48) vs. Ricky Hatton (No. 82).
Thursday, August 09, 2007
Top 100 boxers, part 3
Here are the No. 75 down to No. 51 boxers. It contains one major surprise.
75. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, Panama, 47.827
74. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, U.S., 47.989
73. Juan Carlos Gomez, 1995-07, Cuba, 48.011
72. Naseem Hamed, 1992-02, United Kingdom, 48.178
71. Ike Williams, 1940-55, U.S., 48.225
70. Lennox Lewis, 1989-03, United Kingdom, 48.240
69. Hector Camacho, 1980-05, Puerto Rico, 48.423
68. Jackie Kid Berg, 1924-45, U.S., 48.427
67. Evander Holyfield, 1984-07, U.S., 48.532
66. Erik Morales, 1993-07, Mexico, 48.633
65. Nino Benvenuti, 1961-71, Italy, 48.684
64. Michael Carbajal, 1989-99, Canada, 48.812
63. Kostya Tszyu, 1992-05, Australia, 48.855
62. Sugar Shane Mosley, 1993-07, U.S., 48.885
61. Sam Langford, 1902-26, U.S., 48.957
60. Duilio Loi, 1948-62, Italy, 49.393
59. Emile Griffith, 1958-77, U.S., 49.560
58. Oscar De La Hoya, 1992-07, U.S., 49.571
57. Chiquita Gonzalez, 1984-95, Mexico, 49.674
56. Harry Greb, 1913-26, U.S., 50.478
55. Stanley Ketchel, 1904-10, U.S., 50.521
54. Tony Canzoneri, 1925-39, U.S., 50.612
53. Floyd Patterson, 1952-72, U.S., 50.614
52. Vicente Saldivar, 1961-73, Mexico, 50.623
51. Benny Leonard, 1911-32, U.S., 50.645
Just about every ranking I've even seen puts Jack Dempsey in the very top tier of heavyweight champions with Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Rocky Marciano.
But after looking at his career I'll stand by this ranking. Dempsey had a fine career mark of 61-6-8 with 51 KOs. He was heavyweight champion from 1919 until 1926. That's a long time.
But he rarely defended his title, once going more than three years without fighting.
He also fought very few great fighters. True, he did defeat three Hall of Famers in world title fights. But Jess Willard is one of the weakest Hall of Famers ever. He's in for his defeat of Jack Johnson, which was a 26-round knockout in sweltering Cuba. If it was a 15 rounder -- the standard just a couple of years later -- then Johnson wins all 15 rounds over the lumbering Willard.
The other Hall of Famers he beat in title fights were Tommy Gibbons, a good but not really great fighter, and Georges Carpentier, a light heavyweight.
Really, he spent most of the decade ducking the only other heavyweight at the top of his game, the black Harry Wills, who had to pay for the unpopularity of Jack Johnson.
Finally, Dempsey did face one of the all-time greats in Gene Tunney and Tunney beat him twice easily. Even in the long-count second fight, Tunney essentially won every round other than the one in which he was knocked down.
Dempsey's reputation comes from his demolition of the average Willard, his exciting win over Luis Angel Firpo and the fact he was champion in the roaring twenties. The numbers don't lie, though, he didn't do enough in the ring to warrant being in the top 50.
Someone who did is Lennox Lewis, who will move up as the fighters he defeated are added to the Hall of Fame. Evander Holyfield is a shoe-in, Mike Tyson probably is one as well and Vitaly Klitschko may make the Hall. If they all do, then Lewis will move into the neighborhood of Gene Tunney and James Jeffries at No. 39 and No. 41.
75. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, Panama, 47.827
74. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, U.S., 47.989
73. Juan Carlos Gomez, 1995-07, Cuba, 48.011
72. Naseem Hamed, 1992-02, United Kingdom, 48.178
71. Ike Williams, 1940-55, U.S., 48.225
70. Lennox Lewis, 1989-03, United Kingdom, 48.240
69. Hector Camacho, 1980-05, Puerto Rico, 48.423
68. Jackie Kid Berg, 1924-45, U.S., 48.427
67. Evander Holyfield, 1984-07, U.S., 48.532
66. Erik Morales, 1993-07, Mexico, 48.633
65. Nino Benvenuti, 1961-71, Italy, 48.684
64. Michael Carbajal, 1989-99, Canada, 48.812
63. Kostya Tszyu, 1992-05, Australia, 48.855
62. Sugar Shane Mosley, 1993-07, U.S., 48.885
61. Sam Langford, 1902-26, U.S., 48.957
60. Duilio Loi, 1948-62, Italy, 49.393
59. Emile Griffith, 1958-77, U.S., 49.560
58. Oscar De La Hoya, 1992-07, U.S., 49.571
57. Chiquita Gonzalez, 1984-95, Mexico, 49.674
56. Harry Greb, 1913-26, U.S., 50.478
55. Stanley Ketchel, 1904-10, U.S., 50.521
54. Tony Canzoneri, 1925-39, U.S., 50.612
53. Floyd Patterson, 1952-72, U.S., 50.614
52. Vicente Saldivar, 1961-73, Mexico, 50.623
51. Benny Leonard, 1911-32, U.S., 50.645
Just about every ranking I've even seen puts Jack Dempsey in the very top tier of heavyweight champions with Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Rocky Marciano.
But after looking at his career I'll stand by this ranking. Dempsey had a fine career mark of 61-6-8 with 51 KOs. He was heavyweight champion from 1919 until 1926. That's a long time.
But he rarely defended his title, once going more than three years without fighting.
He also fought very few great fighters. True, he did defeat three Hall of Famers in world title fights. But Jess Willard is one of the weakest Hall of Famers ever. He's in for his defeat of Jack Johnson, which was a 26-round knockout in sweltering Cuba. If it was a 15 rounder -- the standard just a couple of years later -- then Johnson wins all 15 rounds over the lumbering Willard.
The other Hall of Famers he beat in title fights were Tommy Gibbons, a good but not really great fighter, and Georges Carpentier, a light heavyweight.
Really, he spent most of the decade ducking the only other heavyweight at the top of his game, the black Harry Wills, who had to pay for the unpopularity of Jack Johnson.
Finally, Dempsey did face one of the all-time greats in Gene Tunney and Tunney beat him twice easily. Even in the long-count second fight, Tunney essentially won every round other than the one in which he was knocked down.
Dempsey's reputation comes from his demolition of the average Willard, his exciting win over Luis Angel Firpo and the fact he was champion in the roaring twenties. The numbers don't lie, though, he didn't do enough in the ring to warrant being in the top 50.
Someone who did is Lennox Lewis, who will move up as the fighters he defeated are added to the Hall of Fame. Evander Holyfield is a shoe-in, Mike Tyson probably is one as well and Vitaly Klitschko may make the Hall. If they all do, then Lewis will move into the neighborhood of Gene Tunney and James Jeffries at No. 39 and No. 41.
Boxing's top 100, No. 50 down to No. 26
Part two of my revised rankings:
50. Bob Foster, 1961-78, U.S., 50.704
49. Pascual Perez, 1952-64, Argentina, 50.932
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr., 1996-07, U.S., 51.314
47. Flash Elorde, 1951-71, Phillippines, 51.332
46. Jimmy McLarnin, 1923-36, U.S., 51.334
45. Bernard Hopkins, 1988-07, U.S., 51.461
44. Eusebio Pedroza, 1973-92, Panama, 52.145
43. Yoko Gushiken, 1974-81, Japan, 52.167
42. Terry McGovern, 1897-08, U.S., 52.224
41. James Jeffries, 1896-10, U.S., 52.475
40. Azumah Nelson, 1979-98, Ghana, 52.548
39. Gene Tunney, 1915-28, U.S., 52.569
38. Carlos Zarate, 1970-88, Mexico, 52.574
37. Jack Johnson, 1897-28, U.S., 52.621
36. Tommy Ryan, 1887-07, U.S., 52.803
35. Sugar Ray Leonard, 1977-97, U.S., 52.899
34. Khaosai Galaxy, 1980-91, Thailand, 53.056
33. Sandy Saddler, 1944-56, U.S., 53.091
32. Antonio Cervantes, 1964-83, Colombia, 53.093
31. Abe Attell, 1900-17, U.S., 53.165
30. Michael Spinks, 1977-88, U.S., 53.340
29. Joe Frazier, 1965-81, U.S., 53.352
28. George Foreman, 1969-97, U.S., 53.479
27. Thomas Hearns, 1977-06, U.S., 53.540
26. Felix Trinidad, 1990-05, Puerto Rico, 53.848
A few questions in this group. Who is Yoko Gushiken? He was a junior flyweight who fought just 24 times -- 23-1. But 15 of those fights were major title fights and he won all but the last one.
Jack Johnson usually is ranked much higher, but he did lose 13 times, seven by knockout. He also was not a very active champion and that hurt his point total. Johnson's unadjusted score was even lower but he zoomed up the list thanks to the bonus points. He had the most bonus-point victories of anyone, beating James Jeffries, Stanley Ketchel, Tommy Burns, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford and Joe Jeannette over his career.
Sugar Ray Leonard also seems low at No. 35, which puts him several spots behind Thomas Hearns. The mid-injury eye injury kept Leonard from stringing together a bunch of title defenses. He, like Johnson, benefitted from the bonus point system thanks to his wins over Hearn, Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran.
Leonard's score will improve dramatically when Hearns goes into the Hall of Fame. His knockout and draw against Hearns, which is worth about 60 points now will be worth 175 then. Those extra points will move Leonard down around Ricardo Lopez at No. 20.
Michael Spinks also will climb a few slots when Larry Holmes goes into the Hall of Fame.
50. Bob Foster, 1961-78, U.S., 50.704
49. Pascual Perez, 1952-64, Argentina, 50.932
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr., 1996-07, U.S., 51.314
47. Flash Elorde, 1951-71, Phillippines, 51.332
46. Jimmy McLarnin, 1923-36, U.S., 51.334
45. Bernard Hopkins, 1988-07, U.S., 51.461
44. Eusebio Pedroza, 1973-92, Panama, 52.145
43. Yoko Gushiken, 1974-81, Japan, 52.167
42. Terry McGovern, 1897-08, U.S., 52.224
41. James Jeffries, 1896-10, U.S., 52.475
40. Azumah Nelson, 1979-98, Ghana, 52.548
39. Gene Tunney, 1915-28, U.S., 52.569
38. Carlos Zarate, 1970-88, Mexico, 52.574
37. Jack Johnson, 1897-28, U.S., 52.621
36. Tommy Ryan, 1887-07, U.S., 52.803
35. Sugar Ray Leonard, 1977-97, U.S., 52.899
34. Khaosai Galaxy, 1980-91, Thailand, 53.056
33. Sandy Saddler, 1944-56, U.S., 53.091
32. Antonio Cervantes, 1964-83, Colombia, 53.093
31. Abe Attell, 1900-17, U.S., 53.165
30. Michael Spinks, 1977-88, U.S., 53.340
29. Joe Frazier, 1965-81, U.S., 53.352
28. George Foreman, 1969-97, U.S., 53.479
27. Thomas Hearns, 1977-06, U.S., 53.540
26. Felix Trinidad, 1990-05, Puerto Rico, 53.848
A few questions in this group. Who is Yoko Gushiken? He was a junior flyweight who fought just 24 times -- 23-1. But 15 of those fights were major title fights and he won all but the last one.
Jack Johnson usually is ranked much higher, but he did lose 13 times, seven by knockout. He also was not a very active champion and that hurt his point total. Johnson's unadjusted score was even lower but he zoomed up the list thanks to the bonus points. He had the most bonus-point victories of anyone, beating James Jeffries, Stanley Ketchel, Tommy Burns, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford and Joe Jeannette over his career.
Sugar Ray Leonard also seems low at No. 35, which puts him several spots behind Thomas Hearns. The mid-injury eye injury kept Leonard from stringing together a bunch of title defenses. He, like Johnson, benefitted from the bonus point system thanks to his wins over Hearn, Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran.
Leonard's score will improve dramatically when Hearns goes into the Hall of Fame. His knockout and draw against Hearns, which is worth about 60 points now will be worth 175 then. Those extra points will move Leonard down around Ricardo Lopez at No. 20.
Michael Spinks also will climb a few slots when Larry Holmes goes into the Hall of Fame.
Sunday, August 05, 2007
Lorena makes major move in golf's ultimate playday
After yet another meltdown in a major, I was starting to wonder if Lorena Ochoa would break through. She answered that question in the British Open.
Her win solidified her status as the No. 1 female player in the world and gave her a major boost in the Golf's Women's Ultimate Playday. She moved up 20 spots and seems poised to win a string of these.
A final note. No. 20 on the list, Beth Daniel, retired from competitive golf after the British.
With all the majors in the books, here are the current top 54 professional female players:
On the first tee
1. Mickey Wright, 1958-1973, 575.40
2. Annika Sorenstam, 1995-2006, 541.42
3. Karrie Webb, 1996-2007, 474.80
On the second tee
4. Pat Bradley, 1977-1996, 460.93
5. Julie Inkster, 1984-2006, 458.05
6. Kathy Whitworth, 1963-1984, 453.10
On the third tee
7. Patty Berg, 1937-1965, 441.50
8. Patty Sheehan, 1981-1997, 400.62
9. Louise Suggs, 1946-1969, 377.64
On the fourth tee
10. Amy Alcott, 1976-1994, 358.22
11. Sandra Haynie, 1963-1983, 353.00
12. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, 1940-1954, 350.00
On the fifth tee
13. Betsy Rawls, 1951-1969, 329.09
14. JoAnne Carner, 1970-1992, 321.85
15. Meg Mallon, 1990-2004, 321.63
On the sixth tee
16. Laura Davies, 1987-2005, 303.42
17. Nancy Lopez, 1975-1997, 298.88
18. Se Ri Pak, 1998-2007, 293.17
On the seventh tee
19. Donna Caponi, 1969-1982, 266.85
20. Beth Daniel, 1980-2006, 266.30
21. Susan Maxwell Berning, 1965-1979, 242.50
On the eigth tee
22. Mary Mills, 1963-1974, 232.45
23. Clifford-Ann Creed, 1963-1976, 230.20
24. Carol Mann, 1963-1975, 226.50
On the ninth tee
25. Dottie Pepper, 1988-2001, 221.25
26. Sandra Palmer, 1967-1986, 220.00
27. Jan Stephenson, 1976-2000, 216.25
On the 10th tee
28. Marilyn Smith, 1963-1972, 211.45
29. Hollis Stacy, 1976-1996, 207.51
30. Sally Little, 1975-1988, 205.47
On the 11th tee
31. Ayako Okamoto, 1983-1993, 204.93
32. Rosie Jones, 1983-2005, 200.53
33. Liselotte Neumann, 1988-2005, 198.45
On the 12th tee
34. Jane Geddes, 1985-1996, 178.30
35. Lorena Ochoa, 2002-2007, 173.73
36. Tammie Green, 1989-1998, 173.10
On the 13th tee
37. Kelly Robbins, 1994-2004, 158.80
38. Brandie Burton, 1991-2001, 151.00
39. Cristie Kerr, 1999-2007, 150.62
On the 14th tee
40. Grace Park, 1999-2005, 136.60
41. Sherri Steinhauer, 1992-2006, 134.08
42. Jane Blalock, 1971-1980, 132.00
On the 15th tee
43. Judy Rankin, 1964-1979, 130.58
44. Judy Kimball-Simon, 1962-1967, 130.38
45. Beverly Hanson, 1955-1958, 130.00
On the 16th tee
46. Betty Jameson, 1942-1954, 130.00
47. Shirley Englehorn, 1963-1970, 124.25
48. Chris Johnson, 1983-2000, 122.50
On the 17th tee
49. Marlene Hagge, 1956-1972, 122.00
50. Nancy Scranton, 1986-2000, 120.50
51. Donna Andrews, 1992-1998, 116.93
On the 18th tee
52. Pat Hurst, 1996-2006, 116.90
53. Helen Alfreddson, 1992-2006, 116.83
54. Colleen Walker, 1987-1997, 116.80
Her win solidified her status as the No. 1 female player in the world and gave her a major boost in the Golf's Women's Ultimate Playday. She moved up 20 spots and seems poised to win a string of these.
A final note. No. 20 on the list, Beth Daniel, retired from competitive golf after the British.
With all the majors in the books, here are the current top 54 professional female players:
On the first tee
1. Mickey Wright, 1958-1973, 575.40
2. Annika Sorenstam, 1995-2006, 541.42
3. Karrie Webb, 1996-2007, 474.80
On the second tee
4. Pat Bradley, 1977-1996, 460.93
5. Julie Inkster, 1984-2006, 458.05
6. Kathy Whitworth, 1963-1984, 453.10
On the third tee
7. Patty Berg, 1937-1965, 441.50
8. Patty Sheehan, 1981-1997, 400.62
9. Louise Suggs, 1946-1969, 377.64
On the fourth tee
10. Amy Alcott, 1976-1994, 358.22
11. Sandra Haynie, 1963-1983, 353.00
12. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, 1940-1954, 350.00
On the fifth tee
13. Betsy Rawls, 1951-1969, 329.09
14. JoAnne Carner, 1970-1992, 321.85
15. Meg Mallon, 1990-2004, 321.63
On the sixth tee
16. Laura Davies, 1987-2005, 303.42
17. Nancy Lopez, 1975-1997, 298.88
18. Se Ri Pak, 1998-2007, 293.17
On the seventh tee
19. Donna Caponi, 1969-1982, 266.85
20. Beth Daniel, 1980-2006, 266.30
21. Susan Maxwell Berning, 1965-1979, 242.50
On the eigth tee
22. Mary Mills, 1963-1974, 232.45
23. Clifford-Ann Creed, 1963-1976, 230.20
24. Carol Mann, 1963-1975, 226.50
On the ninth tee
25. Dottie Pepper, 1988-2001, 221.25
26. Sandra Palmer, 1967-1986, 220.00
27. Jan Stephenson, 1976-2000, 216.25
On the 10th tee
28. Marilyn Smith, 1963-1972, 211.45
29. Hollis Stacy, 1976-1996, 207.51
30. Sally Little, 1975-1988, 205.47
On the 11th tee
31. Ayako Okamoto, 1983-1993, 204.93
32. Rosie Jones, 1983-2005, 200.53
33. Liselotte Neumann, 1988-2005, 198.45
On the 12th tee
34. Jane Geddes, 1985-1996, 178.30
35. Lorena Ochoa, 2002-2007, 173.73
36. Tammie Green, 1989-1998, 173.10
On the 13th tee
37. Kelly Robbins, 1994-2004, 158.80
38. Brandie Burton, 1991-2001, 151.00
39. Cristie Kerr, 1999-2007, 150.62
On the 14th tee
40. Grace Park, 1999-2005, 136.60
41. Sherri Steinhauer, 1992-2006, 134.08
42. Jane Blalock, 1971-1980, 132.00
On the 15th tee
43. Judy Rankin, 1964-1979, 130.58
44. Judy Kimball-Simon, 1962-1967, 130.38
45. Beverly Hanson, 1955-1958, 130.00
On the 16th tee
46. Betty Jameson, 1942-1954, 130.00
47. Shirley Englehorn, 1963-1970, 124.25
48. Chris Johnson, 1983-2000, 122.50
On the 17th tee
49. Marlene Hagge, 1956-1972, 122.00
50. Nancy Scranton, 1986-2000, 120.50
51. Donna Andrews, 1992-1998, 116.93
On the 18th tee
52. Pat Hurst, 1996-2006, 116.90
53. Helen Alfreddson, 1992-2006, 116.83
54. Colleen Walker, 1987-1997, 116.80
Saturday, August 04, 2007
100 greatest boxers -- revised
A few months ago I posted my choices as the 100 greatest boxers using a system I set up to grade all of the boxers in the International Boxing Hall of Fame.
I liked it, but when I ran through some modern boxers they just scored way too high because of all the additional weight classes and sanctioning bodies. There is just a pea soup of champions today.
So I reworked it. Boxers still score points based on wins, but I had to do some additional breakdowns for era.
It's still based on a 60 fight career so fighters who fought more than 60 fights had their point totals divided and fighters who fought less than 60 points had their non-title fights multiplied.
In any era, a world title win against a Hall of Famer was worth 100 points with a knockout being an additional 25. For the 1983 on era a world title fight is one for a WBA, WBC or IBF belt. If they were knocked out they had five points deducted.
The oldtimers who won world title fights before 1963 (fewest divisions and usually only one recognized world title holder) received 80 points. Knockouts were worth an additional 20 points. Getting knocked out was a -10.
Wins over Hall of Famers in non-title bouts or lesser title fights (WBO, IBU, whatnot) earned 70 points. A KO is a plus 17.5 and getting KO'd is a negative 12.5.
Then it gets messy. World title wins in the WBA-WBC only era of 1963-1982 is worth 60. A pre-1963 lesser title fight (European or just one of the N.Y. bodies) is worth 40. The modern 1983 plus title wins are worth 35. The 1963-1982 lesser title fights (NABF etc.) drop to 30. WBO or IBC titles from 1983 on are worth 25 points and the stepping stone titles from 1983 on (WBU, IBU and all the rest are worth 15.
Non title fights -- after they've been adjusted for the 60 fight total -- are worth 10 with a KO an additional 5 points. Getting KO'd in a non-title bout takes 25 points off your score.
You get a career score -- which helps guys like Ricardo Lopez and Rocky Marciano -- where wins are worth 25 points, draws 12.5, KOs 6.25 and getting KOd a negative 8.25.
You take all of those points and then divide by 60 for a score.
Now, at this point a few boxers seemed out of place. Several fighters with less than 30 fights scored awfully high and a few that accomplished major wins over all-time greats seemed low.
So I adjusted points downward for fighters with fewer than 30 fights and created a bonus system based on quality wins.
My original score treated wins over Hall of Famers evenly and truthfully there are a lot of weak hall of famers. Why is Lew Jenkins or Fritzie Zivic in the hall of fame? Without the bonus system, a knockout win over Sammy Mandell in a title fight had the same weight as Joe Frazier's KO of Muhammad Ali.
I took the top 125 scorers on the unadjusted list and gave fighters points for wins over those fighters. So a win over the top ranked golfer in any fight would be an additional 125 points, the second fighter on the list would be worth 124 and so on. The bonus points were one-time additions. You didn't get the points each time you beat the fighter and you just needed one win over a great even if you lost five other times (Jake LaMotta's 1-5 mark against Sugar Ray Robinson).
The bonus points painted a truer picture. Sugar Ray Leonard, who fought relatively few title fights because of a mid-career eye injury but scored victories over Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran, jumped up the rankings considerably.
One thing to remember is boxers can gain or lose points even after they retire. Take Leonard and Hagler for example. Both defeated Thomas Hearns by knockout. Those wins are worth 43.75 points right now (35 for the victory, 8.75 for the knockout). Thanks to Hearns' comeback this decade, he is not in the Hall of Fame. Of course, he's a shoe-in. Once he is elected, the wins by Hagler and Leonard will be worth 125 points (100 for the win and 25 for the knockout).
With the all-time standings so close once you get past the top four boxers, those extra points will be enough for Hagler and Leonard to move past several boxers.
The best part is that I can keep the rankings up to date with each fight. There are several fights in the coming months that will affect the rankings and I'll update the list after each.
This post is long enough. I'm going to post my greatest 100 boxers over the next four days. I'll begin with No. 25 down to No. 1.
Rank, fighter, years, country, points
25. Roy Jones Jr., 1989-07, U.S., 53.998
24. Julio Cesar Chavez, 1980-05, Mexico, 54.110
23. Roberto Duran, 1968-01, Panama, 54.210
22. Jose Napoles, 1958-75, Cuba, 55.300
21. Eder Jofre, 1957-76, Brazil, 55.391
20. Ricardo Lopez, 1985-01, Mexico, 55.620
19. Salvador Sanchez, 1975-82, Mexico, 56.066
18. Marvin Hagler, 1973-87, U.S., 56.382
17. Willie Pep, 1940-66, U.S., 57.253
16. Barney Ross, 1929-38, U.S., 57.954
15. Archie Moore, 1936-63, U.S., 58.743
14. Carlos Ortiz, 1955-72, Puerto Rico, 58.871
13. Manuel Ortiz, 1938-55, U.S., 59.017
12. Aaron Pryor, 1976-90, U.S., 59.526
11. Ezzard Charles, 1940-59, U.S., 59.653
10. Larry Holmes, 1973-02, U.S., 59.879
9. Alexis Arguello, 1968-95, Nicaragua, 60.008
8. Joe Gans, 1891-09, U.S., 60.416
7. Carlos Monzon, 1963-77, Argentina, 61.664
6. Wilfredo Gomez, 1974-89, Puerto Rico, 62.715
5. Rocky Marciano, 1947-55, U.S., 62.793
4. Sugar Ray Robinson, 1940-65, U.S., 75.382
3. Henry Armstrong, 1931-45, U.S., 79.451
2. Joe Louis, 1934-51, U.S., 84.329
1. Muhammad Ali, 1960-81, U.S., 85.805
I'll admit there are some head scratchers in here. Ezzard Charles at No. 11? He had 25 losses, but he lost 13 of his last 23 fights at the end of his career after losing to Rocky Marciano. He also was knocked out by Jersey Joe Walcott.
Still, he was a very light heavyweight, usually fighting between 175 and 190 pounds, and he took on the best of his day early and often. He was 15-2 against Hall of Fame fighters in non-title or lesser title fights and he had bonus point wins over Joe Louis and Archie Moore.
Aaron Pryor at No. 12 also seems high. Few mention prior when they talk about the best fighters of the 1980s and 1990s. The conversation usually revolves around Hearns, Leonard and Hagler.
But Pryor had a great career record -- 39-1 with 35 KOs -- and a perfect 12-0 mark with 10 knockouts in title fights. Three of those knockouts were bonus point wins over Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello.
The top two actually changed places after the bonus points were figured in. Joe Louis was well ahead of Muhammad Ali thanks to his 26-1 record in world title fights, but only one of Louis' wins was over a fighter in the top 125 of my unadjusted rankings. And even that fighter, John Henry Lewis, deserves an asterisk. Lewis was at the end of his career, had eye injuries and only fought Louis because Joe knew he needed a final payday before retiring.
Ali, on the other hand, scored wins over Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Floyd Patterson and great light heavyweights Bob Foster and Archie Moore. Ali didn't even get bonus points for his shocking wins over Sonny Liston. Liston is highly regarded but had so few title fights -- four total -- that he didn't make the unadjusted top 125.
I liked it, but when I ran through some modern boxers they just scored way too high because of all the additional weight classes and sanctioning bodies. There is just a pea soup of champions today.
So I reworked it. Boxers still score points based on wins, but I had to do some additional breakdowns for era.
It's still based on a 60 fight career so fighters who fought more than 60 fights had their point totals divided and fighters who fought less than 60 points had their non-title fights multiplied.
In any era, a world title win against a Hall of Famer was worth 100 points with a knockout being an additional 25. For the 1983 on era a world title fight is one for a WBA, WBC or IBF belt. If they were knocked out they had five points deducted.
The oldtimers who won world title fights before 1963 (fewest divisions and usually only one recognized world title holder) received 80 points. Knockouts were worth an additional 20 points. Getting knocked out was a -10.
Wins over Hall of Famers in non-title bouts or lesser title fights (WBO, IBU, whatnot) earned 70 points. A KO is a plus 17.5 and getting KO'd is a negative 12.5.
Then it gets messy. World title wins in the WBA-WBC only era of 1963-1982 is worth 60. A pre-1963 lesser title fight (European or just one of the N.Y. bodies) is worth 40. The modern 1983 plus title wins are worth 35. The 1963-1982 lesser title fights (NABF etc.) drop to 30. WBO or IBC titles from 1983 on are worth 25 points and the stepping stone titles from 1983 on (WBU, IBU and all the rest are worth 15.
Non title fights -- after they've been adjusted for the 60 fight total -- are worth 10 with a KO an additional 5 points. Getting KO'd in a non-title bout takes 25 points off your score.
You get a career score -- which helps guys like Ricardo Lopez and Rocky Marciano -- where wins are worth 25 points, draws 12.5, KOs 6.25 and getting KOd a negative 8.25.
You take all of those points and then divide by 60 for a score.
Now, at this point a few boxers seemed out of place. Several fighters with less than 30 fights scored awfully high and a few that accomplished major wins over all-time greats seemed low.
So I adjusted points downward for fighters with fewer than 30 fights and created a bonus system based on quality wins.
My original score treated wins over Hall of Famers evenly and truthfully there are a lot of weak hall of famers. Why is Lew Jenkins or Fritzie Zivic in the hall of fame? Without the bonus system, a knockout win over Sammy Mandell in a title fight had the same weight as Joe Frazier's KO of Muhammad Ali.
I took the top 125 scorers on the unadjusted list and gave fighters points for wins over those fighters. So a win over the top ranked golfer in any fight would be an additional 125 points, the second fighter on the list would be worth 124 and so on. The bonus points were one-time additions. You didn't get the points each time you beat the fighter and you just needed one win over a great even if you lost five other times (Jake LaMotta's 1-5 mark against Sugar Ray Robinson).
The bonus points painted a truer picture. Sugar Ray Leonard, who fought relatively few title fights because of a mid-career eye injury but scored victories over Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran, jumped up the rankings considerably.
One thing to remember is boxers can gain or lose points even after they retire. Take Leonard and Hagler for example. Both defeated Thomas Hearns by knockout. Those wins are worth 43.75 points right now (35 for the victory, 8.75 for the knockout). Thanks to Hearns' comeback this decade, he is not in the Hall of Fame. Of course, he's a shoe-in. Once he is elected, the wins by Hagler and Leonard will be worth 125 points (100 for the win and 25 for the knockout).
With the all-time standings so close once you get past the top four boxers, those extra points will be enough for Hagler and Leonard to move past several boxers.
The best part is that I can keep the rankings up to date with each fight. There are several fights in the coming months that will affect the rankings and I'll update the list after each.
This post is long enough. I'm going to post my greatest 100 boxers over the next four days. I'll begin with No. 25 down to No. 1.
Rank, fighter, years, country, points
25. Roy Jones Jr., 1989-07, U.S., 53.998
24. Julio Cesar Chavez, 1980-05, Mexico, 54.110
23. Roberto Duran, 1968-01, Panama, 54.210
22. Jose Napoles, 1958-75, Cuba, 55.300
21. Eder Jofre, 1957-76, Brazil, 55.391
20. Ricardo Lopez, 1985-01, Mexico, 55.620
19. Salvador Sanchez, 1975-82, Mexico, 56.066
18. Marvin Hagler, 1973-87, U.S., 56.382
17. Willie Pep, 1940-66, U.S., 57.253
16. Barney Ross, 1929-38, U.S., 57.954
15. Archie Moore, 1936-63, U.S., 58.743
14. Carlos Ortiz, 1955-72, Puerto Rico, 58.871
13. Manuel Ortiz, 1938-55, U.S., 59.017
12. Aaron Pryor, 1976-90, U.S., 59.526
11. Ezzard Charles, 1940-59, U.S., 59.653
10. Larry Holmes, 1973-02, U.S., 59.879
9. Alexis Arguello, 1968-95, Nicaragua, 60.008
8. Joe Gans, 1891-09, U.S., 60.416
7. Carlos Monzon, 1963-77, Argentina, 61.664
6. Wilfredo Gomez, 1974-89, Puerto Rico, 62.715
5. Rocky Marciano, 1947-55, U.S., 62.793
4. Sugar Ray Robinson, 1940-65, U.S., 75.382
3. Henry Armstrong, 1931-45, U.S., 79.451
2. Joe Louis, 1934-51, U.S., 84.329
1. Muhammad Ali, 1960-81, U.S., 85.805
I'll admit there are some head scratchers in here. Ezzard Charles at No. 11? He had 25 losses, but he lost 13 of his last 23 fights at the end of his career after losing to Rocky Marciano. He also was knocked out by Jersey Joe Walcott.
Still, he was a very light heavyweight, usually fighting between 175 and 190 pounds, and he took on the best of his day early and often. He was 15-2 against Hall of Fame fighters in non-title or lesser title fights and he had bonus point wins over Joe Louis and Archie Moore.
Aaron Pryor at No. 12 also seems high. Few mention prior when they talk about the best fighters of the 1980s and 1990s. The conversation usually revolves around Hearns, Leonard and Hagler.
But Pryor had a great career record -- 39-1 with 35 KOs -- and a perfect 12-0 mark with 10 knockouts in title fights. Three of those knockouts were bonus point wins over Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello.
The top two actually changed places after the bonus points were figured in. Joe Louis was well ahead of Muhammad Ali thanks to his 26-1 record in world title fights, but only one of Louis' wins was over a fighter in the top 125 of my unadjusted rankings. And even that fighter, John Henry Lewis, deserves an asterisk. Lewis was at the end of his career, had eye injuries and only fought Louis because Joe knew he needed a final payday before retiring.
Ali, on the other hand, scored wins over Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Floyd Patterson and great light heavyweights Bob Foster and Archie Moore. Ali didn't even get bonus points for his shocking wins over Sonny Liston. Liston is highly regarded but had so few title fights -- four total -- that he didn't make the unadjusted top 125.
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