This is the golden age of the No. 4 position and the best to ever play the position is active right now. Here are the 10 best power forwards in pro basketball history.
1. Tim Duncan, 1997-2007, 19462.6
2. Karl Malone, 1985-2004, 19407.7
3. Kevin Garnett, 1996-2007, 18560.1
4. Bob Pettit, 1954-1965, 18297.2
5. Dolph Schayes, 1949-1964, 17694.8
6. Elvin Hayes, 1968-1984, 17347.0
7. Charles Barkley, 1984-2000, 17139.1
8. George McGinnis, 1971-1982, 15661.4
9. Dirk Nowitzki, 1998-2007, 15511.3
10. Dan Issel, 1970-1985, 14331.7
Not only are three of the top 10 playing right now but three more are among the top 17 (Chris Webber, Shawn Marion and Elton Brand). There was a shuffling at the top and the bottom of the top 10.
Duncan, fresh off his fourth world title, passed Malone, the ultimate workhorse. In terms of filling a boxscore, Duncan doesn't do that as well as No. 3 Kevin Garnett, but he's helped tremendously by his play in the playoffs, where he consistently performs above his season averages, and the Spurs' team success.
I write this even though I'm one who puts a mental asterisk by title No. 4. I didn't agree with the suspensions that essentially handed the Spurs the series this year against the Suns and now the whole Tim Donaghy mess brings game four into doubt.
That being said, Duncan is THE player of the late 90s-2000s. Even Shaq fans are having trouble arguing against that.
At the bottom end, Chris Webber played so poorly this year, he actually lost career points and fell behind Dan Issel. It's clear to everyone but Webber that it's time to retire.
Marion at No. 14 seems to be the next best bet to get on this list. He's really a small forward but he's a 4 in the Suns system and that's where he's had his best years.
Monday, August 20, 2007
Saturday, August 18, 2007
Top 10 small forwards unchanged
The last decade has been the decade of the power forward and point guard. The only great small forward to come along since Larry Bird retired has been Grant Hill and his ankle injury has kept him out of the top 10.
Here are the 10 greatest small forwards:
1. Julius Erving, 1971-1987, 20247.8
2. Larry Bird, 1979-1992, 19386.9
3. Elgin Baylor, 1958-1972, 17552.2
4. Rick Barry, 1965-1980, 16677.6
5. Scottie Pippen, 1987-2004, 16536.3
6. John Havlicek, 1962-1978, 16248.4
7. Connie Hawkins, 1967-1976, 14956.0
8. Paul Arizin, 1950-1962, 14906.3
9. Billy Cunningham, 1965-1976, 14869.1
10. Dominique Wilkins, 1982-1999, 14542.8
Hill is at No. 12 and it's possible, if his ankle holds up for a couple more seasons, that he could pass Alex English and Wilkins to get into the top 10. More realisticly is in about three seasons LeBron James will break into the rankings and eventually challenge Bird and Dr. J. James is already ranked No. 20 (ahead of Chris Mullin and Bernard King) with just four seasons played.
Any NBA fan my age (38) or younger believes Bird was better than Erving. They are all missing how dominant Dr. J. was in the ABA. Even putting a 10 percent discount on his stats in that league didn't lower his score to Bird's. When Bird was battling Erving in the 1980s, Dr. J. was already on his way down.
Here are the 10 greatest small forwards:
1. Julius Erving, 1971-1987, 20247.8
2. Larry Bird, 1979-1992, 19386.9
3. Elgin Baylor, 1958-1972, 17552.2
4. Rick Barry, 1965-1980, 16677.6
5. Scottie Pippen, 1987-2004, 16536.3
6. John Havlicek, 1962-1978, 16248.4
7. Connie Hawkins, 1967-1976, 14956.0
8. Paul Arizin, 1950-1962, 14906.3
9. Billy Cunningham, 1965-1976, 14869.1
10. Dominique Wilkins, 1982-1999, 14542.8
Hill is at No. 12 and it's possible, if his ankle holds up for a couple more seasons, that he could pass Alex English and Wilkins to get into the top 10. More realisticly is in about three seasons LeBron James will break into the rankings and eventually challenge Bird and Dr. J. James is already ranked No. 20 (ahead of Chris Mullin and Bernard King) with just four seasons played.
Any NBA fan my age (38) or younger believes Bird was better than Erving. They are all missing how dominant Dr. J. was in the ABA. Even putting a 10 percent discount on his stats in that league didn't lower his score to Bird's. When Bird was battling Erving in the 1980s, Dr. J. was already on his way down.
Thursday, August 16, 2007
Top 10 shooting guards
Here are the top 10 shooting guards. There is one new player in the rankings and another player climbing fast.
Player, years, points
1. Michael Jordan, 1984-2003, 20809.7
2. Jerry West, 1960-1974, 17946.0
3. Kobe Bryant, 1996-2007, 16652.3
4. George Gervin, 1972-1986, 16304.3
5. Clyde Drexler, 1983-1998, 15594.0
6. Tracey McGrady, 1997-2007, 14877.8
7. Bill Sharman, 1950-1961, 13802.7
8. Hal Greer, 1958-1973, 13769.2
9. Dennis Johnson, 1976-1990, 13731.9
10. Walter Davis, 1977-1992, 13313.6
Tracey McGrady knocked Sydney Moncrief from the top 10. I actually forgot to rate McGrady last year so it's possible he was already a top 10 guard. If you look at the list, these are all big shooting guards. The classic spot-up shooter type like Reggie Miller just doesn't fare well (No. 15) because all they do is score. The guys on this list either contributed with rebounds or a little as playmakers. Gervin and McGrady especially because they spent a lot of time as small forwards.
Bryant passed Gervin this year and considering he only is 29 and has several prime years left, he should pass Jerry West and perhaps even challenge Jordan.
Just on the outside of the rankings are Vince Carter at No. 11 -- he passed Moncrief as well -- and Ray Allen at No. 13.
Player, years, points
1. Michael Jordan, 1984-2003, 20809.7
2. Jerry West, 1960-1974, 17946.0
3. Kobe Bryant, 1996-2007, 16652.3
4. George Gervin, 1972-1986, 16304.3
5. Clyde Drexler, 1983-1998, 15594.0
6. Tracey McGrady, 1997-2007, 14877.8
7. Bill Sharman, 1950-1961, 13802.7
8. Hal Greer, 1958-1973, 13769.2
9. Dennis Johnson, 1976-1990, 13731.9
10. Walter Davis, 1977-1992, 13313.6
Tracey McGrady knocked Sydney Moncrief from the top 10. I actually forgot to rate McGrady last year so it's possible he was already a top 10 guard. If you look at the list, these are all big shooting guards. The classic spot-up shooter type like Reggie Miller just doesn't fare well (No. 15) because all they do is score. The guys on this list either contributed with rebounds or a little as playmakers. Gervin and McGrady especially because they spent a lot of time as small forwards.
Bryant passed Gervin this year and considering he only is 29 and has several prime years left, he should pass Jerry West and perhaps even challenge Jordan.
Just on the outside of the rankings are Vince Carter at No. 11 -- he passed Moncrief as well -- and Ray Allen at No. 13.
Tuesday, August 14, 2007
Updated greatest pro basketball players
Who are the best pro basketball players in NBA, ABA and even ABL history? I'll update last year's lists starting by position. There were some major changes in three positions.
First, here are the 10 greatest point guards:
Player, years, points
1. Oscar Robertson, 1960-1974, 18753.0
2. Magic Johnson, 1979-1996, 18692.0
3. Bob Cousy, 1950-1970, 18554.9
4. John Stockton, 1984-2003, 17006.1
5. Gary Payton, 1990-2007, 16925.2
6. Jason Kidd, 1994-2007, 16302.3
7. Allen Iverson, 1996-2007, 15950.0
8. Isiah Thomas, 1981-1993, 15847.2
9. Walt Frazier, 1967-1980, 15210.5
10. Steve Nash, 1996-2007, 14707.9
Nash's third straight near MVP season for Phoenix helped him jump five spots and bumb Tim Hardaway from the top 10. Iverson passed Isaiah Thomas but lost ground to Jason Kidd. Gary Payton is one more good season away from passing John Stockton but Payton actually lost points this season. Stockton seems safe at No. 4.
First, here are the 10 greatest point guards:
Player, years, points
1. Oscar Robertson, 1960-1974, 18753.0
2. Magic Johnson, 1979-1996, 18692.0
3. Bob Cousy, 1950-1970, 18554.9
4. John Stockton, 1984-2003, 17006.1
5. Gary Payton, 1990-2007, 16925.2
6. Jason Kidd, 1994-2007, 16302.3
7. Allen Iverson, 1996-2007, 15950.0
8. Isiah Thomas, 1981-1993, 15847.2
9. Walt Frazier, 1967-1980, 15210.5
10. Steve Nash, 1996-2007, 14707.9
Nash's third straight near MVP season for Phoenix helped him jump five spots and bumb Tim Hardaway from the top 10. Iverson passed Isaiah Thomas but lost ground to Jason Kidd. Gary Payton is one more good season away from passing John Stockton but Payton actually lost points this season. Stockton seems safe at No. 4.
Monday, August 13, 2007
The march goes on for Woods
Tiger is not be as dominant as he was in 2000 and 2001. But each time you begin to wonder if his goal of passing Jack Nicklaus' haul of 18 professional majors and 20 overall majors he rises up and walks off with another.
The old Tiger would have stepped on the gas and won the PGA by 8 shots. This one just held his ground and let others fall away.
No matter. Woods now has 13 professional majors and the three U.S. amateurs and is just four away from catching Nicklaus.
Since he has won five of the last 12 and he has made several lifestyle adjustments, now the betting is whether he'll catch Nicklaus by the time he is 35.
How good is Woods. He finished first in one major and second in two others in 2007, good for 38.5 points in my system, and that's just his fifth best year.
Like Roger Federer in tennis, Tiger may set marks no one will ever be able to reach.
With just the U.S. Amateur left for 2007, here's the updated Golf's Ultimate Playday:
On the first tee
1. Jack Nicklaus, United States, 1959-1998, 858.59
2. Tiger Woods, United States, 1994-2007, 717.92
3. Ben Hogan, United States, 1939-1967, 583.95
4. Walter Hagen, United States, 1913-1940, 517.29
On the second tee
5. Arnold Palmer, United States, 1954-1977, 515.33
6. Tom Watson, United States, 1974-2000, 493.36
7. Gary Player, South Africa, 1956-1984, 477.43
8. Bobby Jones, United States, 1919-1930, 477.25
On the third tee
9. Sam Snead, United States, 1937-1974, 464.41
10. Gene Sarazen, United States, 1921-1956, 458.63
11. Nick Faldo, England, 1978-2003, 401.50
12. Byron Nelson, United States, 1935-1955, 367.54
On the fourth tee
13. Harry Vardon, England, 1894-1922, 351.50
14. J.H. Taylor, England, 1893-1925, 348.75
15. Lee Trevino, United States, 1967-1986, 334.54
16. Seve Ballesteros, Spain, 1976-1991, 321.08
On the fifth tee
17. Phil Mickelson, United States, 1990-2006, 317.81
18. Greg Norman, Australia, 1979-1999, 316.82
19. Raymond Floyd, United States, 1965-1994, 309.32
20. James Braid, Scotland, 1894-1914, 301.63
On the sixth tee
21. Jim Barnes, Eng/U.S., 1913-1930, 301.11
22. Ernie Els, South Africa, 1992-2007, 300.90
23. Peter Thomson, Australia, 1951-1971, 277.10
24. Nick Price, Zimbabwe, 1982-2005, 267.98
On the seventh tee
25. Jimmy Demaret, United States, 1938-1962, 263.44
26. Bobby Locke, South Africa, 1936-1957, 259.75
27. Julius Boros, United States, 1950-1973, 252.92
28. Cary Middlecoff, United States, 1948-1959, 252.50
On the eighth tee
29. Craig Wood, United States, 1929-1944, 251.94
30. Billy Casper, United States, 1958-1976, 251.21
31. Ben Crenshaw, United States, 1972-1995, 243.52
32. Hale Irwin, United States, 1973-1993, 243.38
On the ninth tee
33. Ralph Guldahl, United States, 1933-1941, 237.13
34. Leo Diegel, United States, 1920-1933, 235.56
35. Willie Anderson Jr., Scot/U.S., 1898-1908, 223.50
36. Vijay Singh, Fiji, 1993-2006, 223.00
37. Tom Weiskopf, United States, 1969-1982, 222.43
38. Lloyd Mangrum, United States, 1940-1956, 221.60
39. Harold Hilton, England, 1892-1913, 221.50
40. Johnny Miller, United States, 1966-1985, 221.38
On the 10th tee
41. Paul Runyan, United States, 1931-1951, 221.13
42. Denny Shute, United States, 1928-1950, 219.25
43. Payne Stewart, United States, 1985-1999, 216.50
44. Henry Cotton, England, 1927-1958, 210.92
On the 11th tee
45. Jock Hutchison, Scot/U.S., 1908-1928, 210.25
46. Bernhard Langer, Germany, 1981-2005, 209.58
47. Ted Ray, England, 1902-1925, 204.88
48. Tommy Armour, Scot/US, 1925-1937, 202.63
On the 12th tee
49. Horton Smith, United States, 1928-1954, 198.31
50. Alex Smith, Scot/US, 1898-1921, 193.69
51. Henry Picard, United States, 1932-1950, 192.44
52. Hubert Green, United States, 1974-1989, 190.00
On the 13th tee
53. Mark O'Meara, United States, 1979-2003, 188.70
54. Tom Kite, United States, 1970-2001, 187.94
55. Fred Couples, United States, 1980-2006, 187.70
56. Lawson Little, United States, 1934-1951, 187.33
On the 14th tee
57. Jose Maria Olazabul, Spain, 1984-2006, 187.10
58. Lanny Wadkins, United States, 1970-1993, 185.50
59. Gene Littler, United States, 1953-1979, 184.00
60. Jim Furyk, United States, 1996-2007, 180.45
On the 15th tee
61. Davis Love III, United States, 1995-2005, 177.89
62. Jim Ferrier, Aus/U.S., 1936-1964, 176.50
63. Larry Nelson, United States, 1979-1991, 173.75
64. Johnny Farrell, United States, 1922-1937, 170.46
On the 16th tee
65. Curtis Strange, United States, 1980-1995, 170.17
66. Jack Burke Jr., United States, 1951-1965, 169.95
67. Harry Cooper, Eng/U.S., 1923-1942, 169.50
68. Doug Ford, United States, 1955-1962, 168.50
69. Tommy Bolt, United States, 1952-1971, 166.63
70. Retief Goosen, South Africa, 1997-2007, 166.50
71. Tony Jacklin, England, 1967-1972, 164.50
72. David Graham, Australia, 1975-1990, 163.70
The old Tiger would have stepped on the gas and won the PGA by 8 shots. This one just held his ground and let others fall away.
No matter. Woods now has 13 professional majors and the three U.S. amateurs and is just four away from catching Nicklaus.
Since he has won five of the last 12 and he has made several lifestyle adjustments, now the betting is whether he'll catch Nicklaus by the time he is 35.
How good is Woods. He finished first in one major and second in two others in 2007, good for 38.5 points in my system, and that's just his fifth best year.
Like Roger Federer in tennis, Tiger may set marks no one will ever be able to reach.
With just the U.S. Amateur left for 2007, here's the updated Golf's Ultimate Playday:
On the first tee
1. Jack Nicklaus, United States, 1959-1998, 858.59
2. Tiger Woods, United States, 1994-2007, 717.92
3. Ben Hogan, United States, 1939-1967, 583.95
4. Walter Hagen, United States, 1913-1940, 517.29
On the second tee
5. Arnold Palmer, United States, 1954-1977, 515.33
6. Tom Watson, United States, 1974-2000, 493.36
7. Gary Player, South Africa, 1956-1984, 477.43
8. Bobby Jones, United States, 1919-1930, 477.25
On the third tee
9. Sam Snead, United States, 1937-1974, 464.41
10. Gene Sarazen, United States, 1921-1956, 458.63
11. Nick Faldo, England, 1978-2003, 401.50
12. Byron Nelson, United States, 1935-1955, 367.54
On the fourth tee
13. Harry Vardon, England, 1894-1922, 351.50
14. J.H. Taylor, England, 1893-1925, 348.75
15. Lee Trevino, United States, 1967-1986, 334.54
16. Seve Ballesteros, Spain, 1976-1991, 321.08
On the fifth tee
17. Phil Mickelson, United States, 1990-2006, 317.81
18. Greg Norman, Australia, 1979-1999, 316.82
19. Raymond Floyd, United States, 1965-1994, 309.32
20. James Braid, Scotland, 1894-1914, 301.63
On the sixth tee
21. Jim Barnes, Eng/U.S., 1913-1930, 301.11
22. Ernie Els, South Africa, 1992-2007, 300.90
23. Peter Thomson, Australia, 1951-1971, 277.10
24. Nick Price, Zimbabwe, 1982-2005, 267.98
On the seventh tee
25. Jimmy Demaret, United States, 1938-1962, 263.44
26. Bobby Locke, South Africa, 1936-1957, 259.75
27. Julius Boros, United States, 1950-1973, 252.92
28. Cary Middlecoff, United States, 1948-1959, 252.50
On the eighth tee
29. Craig Wood, United States, 1929-1944, 251.94
30. Billy Casper, United States, 1958-1976, 251.21
31. Ben Crenshaw, United States, 1972-1995, 243.52
32. Hale Irwin, United States, 1973-1993, 243.38
On the ninth tee
33. Ralph Guldahl, United States, 1933-1941, 237.13
34. Leo Diegel, United States, 1920-1933, 235.56
35. Willie Anderson Jr., Scot/U.S., 1898-1908, 223.50
36. Vijay Singh, Fiji, 1993-2006, 223.00
37. Tom Weiskopf, United States, 1969-1982, 222.43
38. Lloyd Mangrum, United States, 1940-1956, 221.60
39. Harold Hilton, England, 1892-1913, 221.50
40. Johnny Miller, United States, 1966-1985, 221.38
On the 10th tee
41. Paul Runyan, United States, 1931-1951, 221.13
42. Denny Shute, United States, 1928-1950, 219.25
43. Payne Stewart, United States, 1985-1999, 216.50
44. Henry Cotton, England, 1927-1958, 210.92
On the 11th tee
45. Jock Hutchison, Scot/U.S., 1908-1928, 210.25
46. Bernhard Langer, Germany, 1981-2005, 209.58
47. Ted Ray, England, 1902-1925, 204.88
48. Tommy Armour, Scot/US, 1925-1937, 202.63
On the 12th tee
49. Horton Smith, United States, 1928-1954, 198.31
50. Alex Smith, Scot/US, 1898-1921, 193.69
51. Henry Picard, United States, 1932-1950, 192.44
52. Hubert Green, United States, 1974-1989, 190.00
On the 13th tee
53. Mark O'Meara, United States, 1979-2003, 188.70
54. Tom Kite, United States, 1970-2001, 187.94
55. Fred Couples, United States, 1980-2006, 187.70
56. Lawson Little, United States, 1934-1951, 187.33
On the 14th tee
57. Jose Maria Olazabul, Spain, 1984-2006, 187.10
58. Lanny Wadkins, United States, 1970-1993, 185.50
59. Gene Littler, United States, 1953-1979, 184.00
60. Jim Furyk, United States, 1996-2007, 180.45
On the 15th tee
61. Davis Love III, United States, 1995-2005, 177.89
62. Jim Ferrier, Aus/U.S., 1936-1964, 176.50
63. Larry Nelson, United States, 1979-1991, 173.75
64. Johnny Farrell, United States, 1922-1937, 170.46
On the 16th tee
65. Curtis Strange, United States, 1980-1995, 170.17
66. Jack Burke Jr., United States, 1951-1965, 169.95
67. Harry Cooper, Eng/U.S., 1923-1942, 169.50
68. Doug Ford, United States, 1955-1962, 168.50
69. Tommy Bolt, United States, 1952-1971, 166.63
70. Retief Goosen, South Africa, 1997-2007, 166.50
71. Tony Jacklin, England, 1967-1972, 164.50
72. David Graham, Australia, 1975-1990, 163.70
Saturday, August 11, 2007
Boxing's top 100 -- final 25
Here are the No. 100 down to No. 76 on my revised rankings as well as the point totals of some fighters on the outside looking in.
100. Sung Kil Moon, 1987-93, South Korea, 46.248
99. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, U.S., 46.288
98. Jimmy Wilde, 1910-23, United Kingdom, 46.333
97. Orlando Canizales, 1984-99, U.S., 46.371
95. (tie) Mickey Walker, 1919-35, U.S., 46.395
95. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, Argentina, 46.395
94. Sven Ottke, 1997-04, Germany, 46.465
93. Tommy Burns, 1900-20, U.S., 46.513
92. Jorge Arce, 1996-07, Mexico, 46.547
91. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, U.S., 46.576
90. William Joppy, 1993-07, U.S., 46.714
89. Bob Montgomery, 1938-50, U.S., 46.769
88. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, 1994-07, Thailand, 46.803
87. Marco Antonio Barrera, 1989-07, Mexico, 46.847
86. Myung Woo Yuh, 1982-93, South Korea, 46.932
85. Maxie Rosenbloom, 1923-39, U.S., 47.121
84. Miguel Angel Cotto, 2001-07, Puerto Rico, 47.229
83. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, United Kingdom, 47.245
82. Ricky Hatton, 1997-07, United Kingdom, 47.348
81. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, Puerto Rico, 47.383
80. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, France, 47.400
79. James Toney, 1988-07, U.S., 47.418
78. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, U.S., 47.662
77. Mike Tyson, 1985-05, U.S., 47.784
76. Joe Calzaghe, 1993-07, United Kingdom, 47.789
Tyson's sad ending to his career cost him points at every turn. He will gain some ground when Larry Holmes goes into the Hall and maybe if they elect Trevor Berbick -- hey, there are weaker Hall of Famers, why is Jack Sharkey in?
William Joppy is a curious one. He has lost to Felix Trinidad, Bernard Hopkins and Jermaine Taylor, but he held the WBA Middleweight Title for five years -- along the way beating an ancient Roberto Duran. That's enough to sneak in the top 100 for now.
There are several fighters just outside the top 100 who may fight their way in or move up as people are elected to the Hall.
* Ratanapol Sor Vorapin (No. 101) is just 33 and is fighting again after losing to Ricardo Lopez in 2000 and retiring for five years. He's fighting nobodies though and will need to get back to the championship level to move up.
* Pernell Whitaker (No. 102) will gain some points from his draw with Julio Cesar Chavez when Chavez is inducted.
* Mikkel Kessler (No. 107) takes on No. 76 Joe Calzaghe on Nov. 11.
In fact, there are several fights scheduled this year that will have an impact on the top 100.
Aug. 18, Arthur Abraham (No. 124) vs. Khoren Gevor.
Sept. 22, Vitali Klitschko (No. 126) vs. Jameel McCline.
Oct. 6, Marco Antonio Barrera (No. 87) vs. Manny Pacquiao (No. 164)
Oct. 13, Evander Holyfield (No. 67) vs. Sultan Ibragimov.
Nov. 10, Sugar Shane Mosley (No. 62) vs. Miguel Angel Cotto (No. 84)
Dec. 8, Floyd Mayweather Jr. (No. 48) vs. Ricky Hatton (No. 82).
100. Sung Kil Moon, 1987-93, South Korea, 46.248
99. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, U.S., 46.288
98. Jimmy Wilde, 1910-23, United Kingdom, 46.333
97. Orlando Canizales, 1984-99, U.S., 46.371
95. (tie) Mickey Walker, 1919-35, U.S., 46.395
95. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, Argentina, 46.395
94. Sven Ottke, 1997-04, Germany, 46.465
93. Tommy Burns, 1900-20, U.S., 46.513
92. Jorge Arce, 1996-07, Mexico, 46.547
91. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, U.S., 46.576
90. William Joppy, 1993-07, U.S., 46.714
89. Bob Montgomery, 1938-50, U.S., 46.769
88. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, 1994-07, Thailand, 46.803
87. Marco Antonio Barrera, 1989-07, Mexico, 46.847
86. Myung Woo Yuh, 1982-93, South Korea, 46.932
85. Maxie Rosenbloom, 1923-39, U.S., 47.121
84. Miguel Angel Cotto, 2001-07, Puerto Rico, 47.229
83. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, United Kingdom, 47.245
82. Ricky Hatton, 1997-07, United Kingdom, 47.348
81. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, Puerto Rico, 47.383
80. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, France, 47.400
79. James Toney, 1988-07, U.S., 47.418
78. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, U.S., 47.662
77. Mike Tyson, 1985-05, U.S., 47.784
76. Joe Calzaghe, 1993-07, United Kingdom, 47.789
Tyson's sad ending to his career cost him points at every turn. He will gain some ground when Larry Holmes goes into the Hall and maybe if they elect Trevor Berbick -- hey, there are weaker Hall of Famers, why is Jack Sharkey in?
William Joppy is a curious one. He has lost to Felix Trinidad, Bernard Hopkins and Jermaine Taylor, but he held the WBA Middleweight Title for five years -- along the way beating an ancient Roberto Duran. That's enough to sneak in the top 100 for now.
There are several fighters just outside the top 100 who may fight their way in or move up as people are elected to the Hall.
* Ratanapol Sor Vorapin (No. 101) is just 33 and is fighting again after losing to Ricardo Lopez in 2000 and retiring for five years. He's fighting nobodies though and will need to get back to the championship level to move up.
* Pernell Whitaker (No. 102) will gain some points from his draw with Julio Cesar Chavez when Chavez is inducted.
* Mikkel Kessler (No. 107) takes on No. 76 Joe Calzaghe on Nov. 11.
In fact, there are several fights scheduled this year that will have an impact on the top 100.
Aug. 18, Arthur Abraham (No. 124) vs. Khoren Gevor.
Sept. 22, Vitali Klitschko (No. 126) vs. Jameel McCline.
Oct. 6, Marco Antonio Barrera (No. 87) vs. Manny Pacquiao (No. 164)
Oct. 13, Evander Holyfield (No. 67) vs. Sultan Ibragimov.
Nov. 10, Sugar Shane Mosley (No. 62) vs. Miguel Angel Cotto (No. 84)
Dec. 8, Floyd Mayweather Jr. (No. 48) vs. Ricky Hatton (No. 82).
Thursday, August 09, 2007
Top 100 boxers, part 3
Here are the No. 75 down to No. 51 boxers. It contains one major surprise.
75. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, Panama, 47.827
74. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, U.S., 47.989
73. Juan Carlos Gomez, 1995-07, Cuba, 48.011
72. Naseem Hamed, 1992-02, United Kingdom, 48.178
71. Ike Williams, 1940-55, U.S., 48.225
70. Lennox Lewis, 1989-03, United Kingdom, 48.240
69. Hector Camacho, 1980-05, Puerto Rico, 48.423
68. Jackie Kid Berg, 1924-45, U.S., 48.427
67. Evander Holyfield, 1984-07, U.S., 48.532
66. Erik Morales, 1993-07, Mexico, 48.633
65. Nino Benvenuti, 1961-71, Italy, 48.684
64. Michael Carbajal, 1989-99, Canada, 48.812
63. Kostya Tszyu, 1992-05, Australia, 48.855
62. Sugar Shane Mosley, 1993-07, U.S., 48.885
61. Sam Langford, 1902-26, U.S., 48.957
60. Duilio Loi, 1948-62, Italy, 49.393
59. Emile Griffith, 1958-77, U.S., 49.560
58. Oscar De La Hoya, 1992-07, U.S., 49.571
57. Chiquita Gonzalez, 1984-95, Mexico, 49.674
56. Harry Greb, 1913-26, U.S., 50.478
55. Stanley Ketchel, 1904-10, U.S., 50.521
54. Tony Canzoneri, 1925-39, U.S., 50.612
53. Floyd Patterson, 1952-72, U.S., 50.614
52. Vicente Saldivar, 1961-73, Mexico, 50.623
51. Benny Leonard, 1911-32, U.S., 50.645
Just about every ranking I've even seen puts Jack Dempsey in the very top tier of heavyweight champions with Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Rocky Marciano.
But after looking at his career I'll stand by this ranking. Dempsey had a fine career mark of 61-6-8 with 51 KOs. He was heavyweight champion from 1919 until 1926. That's a long time.
But he rarely defended his title, once going more than three years without fighting.
He also fought very few great fighters. True, he did defeat three Hall of Famers in world title fights. But Jess Willard is one of the weakest Hall of Famers ever. He's in for his defeat of Jack Johnson, which was a 26-round knockout in sweltering Cuba. If it was a 15 rounder -- the standard just a couple of years later -- then Johnson wins all 15 rounds over the lumbering Willard.
The other Hall of Famers he beat in title fights were Tommy Gibbons, a good but not really great fighter, and Georges Carpentier, a light heavyweight.
Really, he spent most of the decade ducking the only other heavyweight at the top of his game, the black Harry Wills, who had to pay for the unpopularity of Jack Johnson.
Finally, Dempsey did face one of the all-time greats in Gene Tunney and Tunney beat him twice easily. Even in the long-count second fight, Tunney essentially won every round other than the one in which he was knocked down.
Dempsey's reputation comes from his demolition of the average Willard, his exciting win over Luis Angel Firpo and the fact he was champion in the roaring twenties. The numbers don't lie, though, he didn't do enough in the ring to warrant being in the top 50.
Someone who did is Lennox Lewis, who will move up as the fighters he defeated are added to the Hall of Fame. Evander Holyfield is a shoe-in, Mike Tyson probably is one as well and Vitaly Klitschko may make the Hall. If they all do, then Lewis will move into the neighborhood of Gene Tunney and James Jeffries at No. 39 and No. 41.
75. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, Panama, 47.827
74. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, U.S., 47.989
73. Juan Carlos Gomez, 1995-07, Cuba, 48.011
72. Naseem Hamed, 1992-02, United Kingdom, 48.178
71. Ike Williams, 1940-55, U.S., 48.225
70. Lennox Lewis, 1989-03, United Kingdom, 48.240
69. Hector Camacho, 1980-05, Puerto Rico, 48.423
68. Jackie Kid Berg, 1924-45, U.S., 48.427
67. Evander Holyfield, 1984-07, U.S., 48.532
66. Erik Morales, 1993-07, Mexico, 48.633
65. Nino Benvenuti, 1961-71, Italy, 48.684
64. Michael Carbajal, 1989-99, Canada, 48.812
63. Kostya Tszyu, 1992-05, Australia, 48.855
62. Sugar Shane Mosley, 1993-07, U.S., 48.885
61. Sam Langford, 1902-26, U.S., 48.957
60. Duilio Loi, 1948-62, Italy, 49.393
59. Emile Griffith, 1958-77, U.S., 49.560
58. Oscar De La Hoya, 1992-07, U.S., 49.571
57. Chiquita Gonzalez, 1984-95, Mexico, 49.674
56. Harry Greb, 1913-26, U.S., 50.478
55. Stanley Ketchel, 1904-10, U.S., 50.521
54. Tony Canzoneri, 1925-39, U.S., 50.612
53. Floyd Patterson, 1952-72, U.S., 50.614
52. Vicente Saldivar, 1961-73, Mexico, 50.623
51. Benny Leonard, 1911-32, U.S., 50.645
Just about every ranking I've even seen puts Jack Dempsey in the very top tier of heavyweight champions with Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Rocky Marciano.
But after looking at his career I'll stand by this ranking. Dempsey had a fine career mark of 61-6-8 with 51 KOs. He was heavyweight champion from 1919 until 1926. That's a long time.
But he rarely defended his title, once going more than three years without fighting.
He also fought very few great fighters. True, he did defeat three Hall of Famers in world title fights. But Jess Willard is one of the weakest Hall of Famers ever. He's in for his defeat of Jack Johnson, which was a 26-round knockout in sweltering Cuba. If it was a 15 rounder -- the standard just a couple of years later -- then Johnson wins all 15 rounds over the lumbering Willard.
The other Hall of Famers he beat in title fights were Tommy Gibbons, a good but not really great fighter, and Georges Carpentier, a light heavyweight.
Really, he spent most of the decade ducking the only other heavyweight at the top of his game, the black Harry Wills, who had to pay for the unpopularity of Jack Johnson.
Finally, Dempsey did face one of the all-time greats in Gene Tunney and Tunney beat him twice easily. Even in the long-count second fight, Tunney essentially won every round other than the one in which he was knocked down.
Dempsey's reputation comes from his demolition of the average Willard, his exciting win over Luis Angel Firpo and the fact he was champion in the roaring twenties. The numbers don't lie, though, he didn't do enough in the ring to warrant being in the top 50.
Someone who did is Lennox Lewis, who will move up as the fighters he defeated are added to the Hall of Fame. Evander Holyfield is a shoe-in, Mike Tyson probably is one as well and Vitaly Klitschko may make the Hall. If they all do, then Lewis will move into the neighborhood of Gene Tunney and James Jeffries at No. 39 and No. 41.
Boxing's top 100, No. 50 down to No. 26
Part two of my revised rankings:
50. Bob Foster, 1961-78, U.S., 50.704
49. Pascual Perez, 1952-64, Argentina, 50.932
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr., 1996-07, U.S., 51.314
47. Flash Elorde, 1951-71, Phillippines, 51.332
46. Jimmy McLarnin, 1923-36, U.S., 51.334
45. Bernard Hopkins, 1988-07, U.S., 51.461
44. Eusebio Pedroza, 1973-92, Panama, 52.145
43. Yoko Gushiken, 1974-81, Japan, 52.167
42. Terry McGovern, 1897-08, U.S., 52.224
41. James Jeffries, 1896-10, U.S., 52.475
40. Azumah Nelson, 1979-98, Ghana, 52.548
39. Gene Tunney, 1915-28, U.S., 52.569
38. Carlos Zarate, 1970-88, Mexico, 52.574
37. Jack Johnson, 1897-28, U.S., 52.621
36. Tommy Ryan, 1887-07, U.S., 52.803
35. Sugar Ray Leonard, 1977-97, U.S., 52.899
34. Khaosai Galaxy, 1980-91, Thailand, 53.056
33. Sandy Saddler, 1944-56, U.S., 53.091
32. Antonio Cervantes, 1964-83, Colombia, 53.093
31. Abe Attell, 1900-17, U.S., 53.165
30. Michael Spinks, 1977-88, U.S., 53.340
29. Joe Frazier, 1965-81, U.S., 53.352
28. George Foreman, 1969-97, U.S., 53.479
27. Thomas Hearns, 1977-06, U.S., 53.540
26. Felix Trinidad, 1990-05, Puerto Rico, 53.848
A few questions in this group. Who is Yoko Gushiken? He was a junior flyweight who fought just 24 times -- 23-1. But 15 of those fights were major title fights and he won all but the last one.
Jack Johnson usually is ranked much higher, but he did lose 13 times, seven by knockout. He also was not a very active champion and that hurt his point total. Johnson's unadjusted score was even lower but he zoomed up the list thanks to the bonus points. He had the most bonus-point victories of anyone, beating James Jeffries, Stanley Ketchel, Tommy Burns, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford and Joe Jeannette over his career.
Sugar Ray Leonard also seems low at No. 35, which puts him several spots behind Thomas Hearns. The mid-injury eye injury kept Leonard from stringing together a bunch of title defenses. He, like Johnson, benefitted from the bonus point system thanks to his wins over Hearn, Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran.
Leonard's score will improve dramatically when Hearns goes into the Hall of Fame. His knockout and draw against Hearns, which is worth about 60 points now will be worth 175 then. Those extra points will move Leonard down around Ricardo Lopez at No. 20.
Michael Spinks also will climb a few slots when Larry Holmes goes into the Hall of Fame.
50. Bob Foster, 1961-78, U.S., 50.704
49. Pascual Perez, 1952-64, Argentina, 50.932
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr., 1996-07, U.S., 51.314
47. Flash Elorde, 1951-71, Phillippines, 51.332
46. Jimmy McLarnin, 1923-36, U.S., 51.334
45. Bernard Hopkins, 1988-07, U.S., 51.461
44. Eusebio Pedroza, 1973-92, Panama, 52.145
43. Yoko Gushiken, 1974-81, Japan, 52.167
42. Terry McGovern, 1897-08, U.S., 52.224
41. James Jeffries, 1896-10, U.S., 52.475
40. Azumah Nelson, 1979-98, Ghana, 52.548
39. Gene Tunney, 1915-28, U.S., 52.569
38. Carlos Zarate, 1970-88, Mexico, 52.574
37. Jack Johnson, 1897-28, U.S., 52.621
36. Tommy Ryan, 1887-07, U.S., 52.803
35. Sugar Ray Leonard, 1977-97, U.S., 52.899
34. Khaosai Galaxy, 1980-91, Thailand, 53.056
33. Sandy Saddler, 1944-56, U.S., 53.091
32. Antonio Cervantes, 1964-83, Colombia, 53.093
31. Abe Attell, 1900-17, U.S., 53.165
30. Michael Spinks, 1977-88, U.S., 53.340
29. Joe Frazier, 1965-81, U.S., 53.352
28. George Foreman, 1969-97, U.S., 53.479
27. Thomas Hearns, 1977-06, U.S., 53.540
26. Felix Trinidad, 1990-05, Puerto Rico, 53.848
A few questions in this group. Who is Yoko Gushiken? He was a junior flyweight who fought just 24 times -- 23-1. But 15 of those fights were major title fights and he won all but the last one.
Jack Johnson usually is ranked much higher, but he did lose 13 times, seven by knockout. He also was not a very active champion and that hurt his point total. Johnson's unadjusted score was even lower but he zoomed up the list thanks to the bonus points. He had the most bonus-point victories of anyone, beating James Jeffries, Stanley Ketchel, Tommy Burns, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford and Joe Jeannette over his career.
Sugar Ray Leonard also seems low at No. 35, which puts him several spots behind Thomas Hearns. The mid-injury eye injury kept Leonard from stringing together a bunch of title defenses. He, like Johnson, benefitted from the bonus point system thanks to his wins over Hearn, Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran.
Leonard's score will improve dramatically when Hearns goes into the Hall of Fame. His knockout and draw against Hearns, which is worth about 60 points now will be worth 175 then. Those extra points will move Leonard down around Ricardo Lopez at No. 20.
Michael Spinks also will climb a few slots when Larry Holmes goes into the Hall of Fame.
Sunday, August 05, 2007
Lorena makes major move in golf's ultimate playday
After yet another meltdown in a major, I was starting to wonder if Lorena Ochoa would break through. She answered that question in the British Open.
Her win solidified her status as the No. 1 female player in the world and gave her a major boost in the Golf's Women's Ultimate Playday. She moved up 20 spots and seems poised to win a string of these.
A final note. No. 20 on the list, Beth Daniel, retired from competitive golf after the British.
With all the majors in the books, here are the current top 54 professional female players:
On the first tee
1. Mickey Wright, 1958-1973, 575.40
2. Annika Sorenstam, 1995-2006, 541.42
3. Karrie Webb, 1996-2007, 474.80
On the second tee
4. Pat Bradley, 1977-1996, 460.93
5. Julie Inkster, 1984-2006, 458.05
6. Kathy Whitworth, 1963-1984, 453.10
On the third tee
7. Patty Berg, 1937-1965, 441.50
8. Patty Sheehan, 1981-1997, 400.62
9. Louise Suggs, 1946-1969, 377.64
On the fourth tee
10. Amy Alcott, 1976-1994, 358.22
11. Sandra Haynie, 1963-1983, 353.00
12. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, 1940-1954, 350.00
On the fifth tee
13. Betsy Rawls, 1951-1969, 329.09
14. JoAnne Carner, 1970-1992, 321.85
15. Meg Mallon, 1990-2004, 321.63
On the sixth tee
16. Laura Davies, 1987-2005, 303.42
17. Nancy Lopez, 1975-1997, 298.88
18. Se Ri Pak, 1998-2007, 293.17
On the seventh tee
19. Donna Caponi, 1969-1982, 266.85
20. Beth Daniel, 1980-2006, 266.30
21. Susan Maxwell Berning, 1965-1979, 242.50
On the eigth tee
22. Mary Mills, 1963-1974, 232.45
23. Clifford-Ann Creed, 1963-1976, 230.20
24. Carol Mann, 1963-1975, 226.50
On the ninth tee
25. Dottie Pepper, 1988-2001, 221.25
26. Sandra Palmer, 1967-1986, 220.00
27. Jan Stephenson, 1976-2000, 216.25
On the 10th tee
28. Marilyn Smith, 1963-1972, 211.45
29. Hollis Stacy, 1976-1996, 207.51
30. Sally Little, 1975-1988, 205.47
On the 11th tee
31. Ayako Okamoto, 1983-1993, 204.93
32. Rosie Jones, 1983-2005, 200.53
33. Liselotte Neumann, 1988-2005, 198.45
On the 12th tee
34. Jane Geddes, 1985-1996, 178.30
35. Lorena Ochoa, 2002-2007, 173.73
36. Tammie Green, 1989-1998, 173.10
On the 13th tee
37. Kelly Robbins, 1994-2004, 158.80
38. Brandie Burton, 1991-2001, 151.00
39. Cristie Kerr, 1999-2007, 150.62
On the 14th tee
40. Grace Park, 1999-2005, 136.60
41. Sherri Steinhauer, 1992-2006, 134.08
42. Jane Blalock, 1971-1980, 132.00
On the 15th tee
43. Judy Rankin, 1964-1979, 130.58
44. Judy Kimball-Simon, 1962-1967, 130.38
45. Beverly Hanson, 1955-1958, 130.00
On the 16th tee
46. Betty Jameson, 1942-1954, 130.00
47. Shirley Englehorn, 1963-1970, 124.25
48. Chris Johnson, 1983-2000, 122.50
On the 17th tee
49. Marlene Hagge, 1956-1972, 122.00
50. Nancy Scranton, 1986-2000, 120.50
51. Donna Andrews, 1992-1998, 116.93
On the 18th tee
52. Pat Hurst, 1996-2006, 116.90
53. Helen Alfreddson, 1992-2006, 116.83
54. Colleen Walker, 1987-1997, 116.80
Her win solidified her status as the No. 1 female player in the world and gave her a major boost in the Golf's Women's Ultimate Playday. She moved up 20 spots and seems poised to win a string of these.
A final note. No. 20 on the list, Beth Daniel, retired from competitive golf after the British.
With all the majors in the books, here are the current top 54 professional female players:
On the first tee
1. Mickey Wright, 1958-1973, 575.40
2. Annika Sorenstam, 1995-2006, 541.42
3. Karrie Webb, 1996-2007, 474.80
On the second tee
4. Pat Bradley, 1977-1996, 460.93
5. Julie Inkster, 1984-2006, 458.05
6. Kathy Whitworth, 1963-1984, 453.10
On the third tee
7. Patty Berg, 1937-1965, 441.50
8. Patty Sheehan, 1981-1997, 400.62
9. Louise Suggs, 1946-1969, 377.64
On the fourth tee
10. Amy Alcott, 1976-1994, 358.22
11. Sandra Haynie, 1963-1983, 353.00
12. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, 1940-1954, 350.00
On the fifth tee
13. Betsy Rawls, 1951-1969, 329.09
14. JoAnne Carner, 1970-1992, 321.85
15. Meg Mallon, 1990-2004, 321.63
On the sixth tee
16. Laura Davies, 1987-2005, 303.42
17. Nancy Lopez, 1975-1997, 298.88
18. Se Ri Pak, 1998-2007, 293.17
On the seventh tee
19. Donna Caponi, 1969-1982, 266.85
20. Beth Daniel, 1980-2006, 266.30
21. Susan Maxwell Berning, 1965-1979, 242.50
On the eigth tee
22. Mary Mills, 1963-1974, 232.45
23. Clifford-Ann Creed, 1963-1976, 230.20
24. Carol Mann, 1963-1975, 226.50
On the ninth tee
25. Dottie Pepper, 1988-2001, 221.25
26. Sandra Palmer, 1967-1986, 220.00
27. Jan Stephenson, 1976-2000, 216.25
On the 10th tee
28. Marilyn Smith, 1963-1972, 211.45
29. Hollis Stacy, 1976-1996, 207.51
30. Sally Little, 1975-1988, 205.47
On the 11th tee
31. Ayako Okamoto, 1983-1993, 204.93
32. Rosie Jones, 1983-2005, 200.53
33. Liselotte Neumann, 1988-2005, 198.45
On the 12th tee
34. Jane Geddes, 1985-1996, 178.30
35. Lorena Ochoa, 2002-2007, 173.73
36. Tammie Green, 1989-1998, 173.10
On the 13th tee
37. Kelly Robbins, 1994-2004, 158.80
38. Brandie Burton, 1991-2001, 151.00
39. Cristie Kerr, 1999-2007, 150.62
On the 14th tee
40. Grace Park, 1999-2005, 136.60
41. Sherri Steinhauer, 1992-2006, 134.08
42. Jane Blalock, 1971-1980, 132.00
On the 15th tee
43. Judy Rankin, 1964-1979, 130.58
44. Judy Kimball-Simon, 1962-1967, 130.38
45. Beverly Hanson, 1955-1958, 130.00
On the 16th tee
46. Betty Jameson, 1942-1954, 130.00
47. Shirley Englehorn, 1963-1970, 124.25
48. Chris Johnson, 1983-2000, 122.50
On the 17th tee
49. Marlene Hagge, 1956-1972, 122.00
50. Nancy Scranton, 1986-2000, 120.50
51. Donna Andrews, 1992-1998, 116.93
On the 18th tee
52. Pat Hurst, 1996-2006, 116.90
53. Helen Alfreddson, 1992-2006, 116.83
54. Colleen Walker, 1987-1997, 116.80
Saturday, August 04, 2007
100 greatest boxers -- revised
A few months ago I posted my choices as the 100 greatest boxers using a system I set up to grade all of the boxers in the International Boxing Hall of Fame.
I liked it, but when I ran through some modern boxers they just scored way too high because of all the additional weight classes and sanctioning bodies. There is just a pea soup of champions today.
So I reworked it. Boxers still score points based on wins, but I had to do some additional breakdowns for era.
It's still based on a 60 fight career so fighters who fought more than 60 fights had their point totals divided and fighters who fought less than 60 points had their non-title fights multiplied.
In any era, a world title win against a Hall of Famer was worth 100 points with a knockout being an additional 25. For the 1983 on era a world title fight is one for a WBA, WBC or IBF belt. If they were knocked out they had five points deducted.
The oldtimers who won world title fights before 1963 (fewest divisions and usually only one recognized world title holder) received 80 points. Knockouts were worth an additional 20 points. Getting knocked out was a -10.
Wins over Hall of Famers in non-title bouts or lesser title fights (WBO, IBU, whatnot) earned 70 points. A KO is a plus 17.5 and getting KO'd is a negative 12.5.
Then it gets messy. World title wins in the WBA-WBC only era of 1963-1982 is worth 60. A pre-1963 lesser title fight (European or just one of the N.Y. bodies) is worth 40. The modern 1983 plus title wins are worth 35. The 1963-1982 lesser title fights (NABF etc.) drop to 30. WBO or IBC titles from 1983 on are worth 25 points and the stepping stone titles from 1983 on (WBU, IBU and all the rest are worth 15.
Non title fights -- after they've been adjusted for the 60 fight total -- are worth 10 with a KO an additional 5 points. Getting KO'd in a non-title bout takes 25 points off your score.
You get a career score -- which helps guys like Ricardo Lopez and Rocky Marciano -- where wins are worth 25 points, draws 12.5, KOs 6.25 and getting KOd a negative 8.25.
You take all of those points and then divide by 60 for a score.
Now, at this point a few boxers seemed out of place. Several fighters with less than 30 fights scored awfully high and a few that accomplished major wins over all-time greats seemed low.
So I adjusted points downward for fighters with fewer than 30 fights and created a bonus system based on quality wins.
My original score treated wins over Hall of Famers evenly and truthfully there are a lot of weak hall of famers. Why is Lew Jenkins or Fritzie Zivic in the hall of fame? Without the bonus system, a knockout win over Sammy Mandell in a title fight had the same weight as Joe Frazier's KO of Muhammad Ali.
I took the top 125 scorers on the unadjusted list and gave fighters points for wins over those fighters. So a win over the top ranked golfer in any fight would be an additional 125 points, the second fighter on the list would be worth 124 and so on. The bonus points were one-time additions. You didn't get the points each time you beat the fighter and you just needed one win over a great even if you lost five other times (Jake LaMotta's 1-5 mark against Sugar Ray Robinson).
The bonus points painted a truer picture. Sugar Ray Leonard, who fought relatively few title fights because of a mid-career eye injury but scored victories over Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran, jumped up the rankings considerably.
One thing to remember is boxers can gain or lose points even after they retire. Take Leonard and Hagler for example. Both defeated Thomas Hearns by knockout. Those wins are worth 43.75 points right now (35 for the victory, 8.75 for the knockout). Thanks to Hearns' comeback this decade, he is not in the Hall of Fame. Of course, he's a shoe-in. Once he is elected, the wins by Hagler and Leonard will be worth 125 points (100 for the win and 25 for the knockout).
With the all-time standings so close once you get past the top four boxers, those extra points will be enough for Hagler and Leonard to move past several boxers.
The best part is that I can keep the rankings up to date with each fight. There are several fights in the coming months that will affect the rankings and I'll update the list after each.
This post is long enough. I'm going to post my greatest 100 boxers over the next four days. I'll begin with No. 25 down to No. 1.
Rank, fighter, years, country, points
25. Roy Jones Jr., 1989-07, U.S., 53.998
24. Julio Cesar Chavez, 1980-05, Mexico, 54.110
23. Roberto Duran, 1968-01, Panama, 54.210
22. Jose Napoles, 1958-75, Cuba, 55.300
21. Eder Jofre, 1957-76, Brazil, 55.391
20. Ricardo Lopez, 1985-01, Mexico, 55.620
19. Salvador Sanchez, 1975-82, Mexico, 56.066
18. Marvin Hagler, 1973-87, U.S., 56.382
17. Willie Pep, 1940-66, U.S., 57.253
16. Barney Ross, 1929-38, U.S., 57.954
15. Archie Moore, 1936-63, U.S., 58.743
14. Carlos Ortiz, 1955-72, Puerto Rico, 58.871
13. Manuel Ortiz, 1938-55, U.S., 59.017
12. Aaron Pryor, 1976-90, U.S., 59.526
11. Ezzard Charles, 1940-59, U.S., 59.653
10. Larry Holmes, 1973-02, U.S., 59.879
9. Alexis Arguello, 1968-95, Nicaragua, 60.008
8. Joe Gans, 1891-09, U.S., 60.416
7. Carlos Monzon, 1963-77, Argentina, 61.664
6. Wilfredo Gomez, 1974-89, Puerto Rico, 62.715
5. Rocky Marciano, 1947-55, U.S., 62.793
4. Sugar Ray Robinson, 1940-65, U.S., 75.382
3. Henry Armstrong, 1931-45, U.S., 79.451
2. Joe Louis, 1934-51, U.S., 84.329
1. Muhammad Ali, 1960-81, U.S., 85.805
I'll admit there are some head scratchers in here. Ezzard Charles at No. 11? He had 25 losses, but he lost 13 of his last 23 fights at the end of his career after losing to Rocky Marciano. He also was knocked out by Jersey Joe Walcott.
Still, he was a very light heavyweight, usually fighting between 175 and 190 pounds, and he took on the best of his day early and often. He was 15-2 against Hall of Fame fighters in non-title or lesser title fights and he had bonus point wins over Joe Louis and Archie Moore.
Aaron Pryor at No. 12 also seems high. Few mention prior when they talk about the best fighters of the 1980s and 1990s. The conversation usually revolves around Hearns, Leonard and Hagler.
But Pryor had a great career record -- 39-1 with 35 KOs -- and a perfect 12-0 mark with 10 knockouts in title fights. Three of those knockouts were bonus point wins over Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello.
The top two actually changed places after the bonus points were figured in. Joe Louis was well ahead of Muhammad Ali thanks to his 26-1 record in world title fights, but only one of Louis' wins was over a fighter in the top 125 of my unadjusted rankings. And even that fighter, John Henry Lewis, deserves an asterisk. Lewis was at the end of his career, had eye injuries and only fought Louis because Joe knew he needed a final payday before retiring.
Ali, on the other hand, scored wins over Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Floyd Patterson and great light heavyweights Bob Foster and Archie Moore. Ali didn't even get bonus points for his shocking wins over Sonny Liston. Liston is highly regarded but had so few title fights -- four total -- that he didn't make the unadjusted top 125.
I liked it, but when I ran through some modern boxers they just scored way too high because of all the additional weight classes and sanctioning bodies. There is just a pea soup of champions today.
So I reworked it. Boxers still score points based on wins, but I had to do some additional breakdowns for era.
It's still based on a 60 fight career so fighters who fought more than 60 fights had their point totals divided and fighters who fought less than 60 points had their non-title fights multiplied.
In any era, a world title win against a Hall of Famer was worth 100 points with a knockout being an additional 25. For the 1983 on era a world title fight is one for a WBA, WBC or IBF belt. If they were knocked out they had five points deducted.
The oldtimers who won world title fights before 1963 (fewest divisions and usually only one recognized world title holder) received 80 points. Knockouts were worth an additional 20 points. Getting knocked out was a -10.
Wins over Hall of Famers in non-title bouts or lesser title fights (WBO, IBU, whatnot) earned 70 points. A KO is a plus 17.5 and getting KO'd is a negative 12.5.
Then it gets messy. World title wins in the WBA-WBC only era of 1963-1982 is worth 60. A pre-1963 lesser title fight (European or just one of the N.Y. bodies) is worth 40. The modern 1983 plus title wins are worth 35. The 1963-1982 lesser title fights (NABF etc.) drop to 30. WBO or IBC titles from 1983 on are worth 25 points and the stepping stone titles from 1983 on (WBU, IBU and all the rest are worth 15.
Non title fights -- after they've been adjusted for the 60 fight total -- are worth 10 with a KO an additional 5 points. Getting KO'd in a non-title bout takes 25 points off your score.
You get a career score -- which helps guys like Ricardo Lopez and Rocky Marciano -- where wins are worth 25 points, draws 12.5, KOs 6.25 and getting KOd a negative 8.25.
You take all of those points and then divide by 60 for a score.
Now, at this point a few boxers seemed out of place. Several fighters with less than 30 fights scored awfully high and a few that accomplished major wins over all-time greats seemed low.
So I adjusted points downward for fighters with fewer than 30 fights and created a bonus system based on quality wins.
My original score treated wins over Hall of Famers evenly and truthfully there are a lot of weak hall of famers. Why is Lew Jenkins or Fritzie Zivic in the hall of fame? Without the bonus system, a knockout win over Sammy Mandell in a title fight had the same weight as Joe Frazier's KO of Muhammad Ali.
I took the top 125 scorers on the unadjusted list and gave fighters points for wins over those fighters. So a win over the top ranked golfer in any fight would be an additional 125 points, the second fighter on the list would be worth 124 and so on. The bonus points were one-time additions. You didn't get the points each time you beat the fighter and you just needed one win over a great even if you lost five other times (Jake LaMotta's 1-5 mark against Sugar Ray Robinson).
The bonus points painted a truer picture. Sugar Ray Leonard, who fought relatively few title fights because of a mid-career eye injury but scored victories over Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran, jumped up the rankings considerably.
One thing to remember is boxers can gain or lose points even after they retire. Take Leonard and Hagler for example. Both defeated Thomas Hearns by knockout. Those wins are worth 43.75 points right now (35 for the victory, 8.75 for the knockout). Thanks to Hearns' comeback this decade, he is not in the Hall of Fame. Of course, he's a shoe-in. Once he is elected, the wins by Hagler and Leonard will be worth 125 points (100 for the win and 25 for the knockout).
With the all-time standings so close once you get past the top four boxers, those extra points will be enough for Hagler and Leonard to move past several boxers.
The best part is that I can keep the rankings up to date with each fight. There are several fights in the coming months that will affect the rankings and I'll update the list after each.
This post is long enough. I'm going to post my greatest 100 boxers over the next four days. I'll begin with No. 25 down to No. 1.
Rank, fighter, years, country, points
25. Roy Jones Jr., 1989-07, U.S., 53.998
24. Julio Cesar Chavez, 1980-05, Mexico, 54.110
23. Roberto Duran, 1968-01, Panama, 54.210
22. Jose Napoles, 1958-75, Cuba, 55.300
21. Eder Jofre, 1957-76, Brazil, 55.391
20. Ricardo Lopez, 1985-01, Mexico, 55.620
19. Salvador Sanchez, 1975-82, Mexico, 56.066
18. Marvin Hagler, 1973-87, U.S., 56.382
17. Willie Pep, 1940-66, U.S., 57.253
16. Barney Ross, 1929-38, U.S., 57.954
15. Archie Moore, 1936-63, U.S., 58.743
14. Carlos Ortiz, 1955-72, Puerto Rico, 58.871
13. Manuel Ortiz, 1938-55, U.S., 59.017
12. Aaron Pryor, 1976-90, U.S., 59.526
11. Ezzard Charles, 1940-59, U.S., 59.653
10. Larry Holmes, 1973-02, U.S., 59.879
9. Alexis Arguello, 1968-95, Nicaragua, 60.008
8. Joe Gans, 1891-09, U.S., 60.416
7. Carlos Monzon, 1963-77, Argentina, 61.664
6. Wilfredo Gomez, 1974-89, Puerto Rico, 62.715
5. Rocky Marciano, 1947-55, U.S., 62.793
4. Sugar Ray Robinson, 1940-65, U.S., 75.382
3. Henry Armstrong, 1931-45, U.S., 79.451
2. Joe Louis, 1934-51, U.S., 84.329
1. Muhammad Ali, 1960-81, U.S., 85.805
I'll admit there are some head scratchers in here. Ezzard Charles at No. 11? He had 25 losses, but he lost 13 of his last 23 fights at the end of his career after losing to Rocky Marciano. He also was knocked out by Jersey Joe Walcott.
Still, he was a very light heavyweight, usually fighting between 175 and 190 pounds, and he took on the best of his day early and often. He was 15-2 against Hall of Fame fighters in non-title or lesser title fights and he had bonus point wins over Joe Louis and Archie Moore.
Aaron Pryor at No. 12 also seems high. Few mention prior when they talk about the best fighters of the 1980s and 1990s. The conversation usually revolves around Hearns, Leonard and Hagler.
But Pryor had a great career record -- 39-1 with 35 KOs -- and a perfect 12-0 mark with 10 knockouts in title fights. Three of those knockouts were bonus point wins over Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello.
The top two actually changed places after the bonus points were figured in. Joe Louis was well ahead of Muhammad Ali thanks to his 26-1 record in world title fights, but only one of Louis' wins was over a fighter in the top 125 of my unadjusted rankings. And even that fighter, John Henry Lewis, deserves an asterisk. Lewis was at the end of his career, had eye injuries and only fought Louis because Joe knew he needed a final payday before retiring.
Ali, on the other hand, scored wins over Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Floyd Patterson and great light heavyweights Bob Foster and Archie Moore. Ali didn't even get bonus points for his shocking wins over Sonny Liston. Liston is highly regarded but had so few title fights -- four total -- that he didn't make the unadjusted top 125.
Sunday, June 17, 2007
Furyk moves up while falling short
Jim Furyk's second straight second place finish helped him jump five spots in the Ultimate Golf Playday. Only the top 72 -- 18 foursomes -- so you won't see U.S. Open champion Angel Cabrera. His win pulled him up to No. 177, just behind the immortal Dick Metz.
Tiger Woods' second place finish allowed him to pick up more points, but his mad dash to overtake Jack Nicklaus as the greatest golfer has lost a little steam.
Here are the 72 greatest men golfers ever. Active golfers are in bold.
Rank, player, years, points
1. Jack Nicklaus, United States, 1959-1998, 858.59
2. Tiger Woods, United States, 1994-2007, 693.17
3. Ben Hogan, United States, 1939-1967, 583.95
4. Walter Hagen, United States, 1913-1940, 517.29
5. Arnold Palmer, United States, 1954-1977, 515.33
6. Tom Watson, United States, 1974-2000, 493.36
7. Gary Player, South Africa, 1956-1984, 477.43
8. Bobby Jones, United States, 1919-1930, 477.25
9. Sam Snead, United States, 1937-1974, 464.41
10. Gene Sarazen, United States, 1921-1956, 458.63
11. Nick Faldo, England, 1978-2003, 401.50
12. Byron Nelson, United States, 1935-1955, 367.54
13. Harry Vardon, England, 1894-1922, 351.50
14. J.H. Taylor, England, 1893-1925, 348.75
15. Lee Trevino, United States, 1967-1986, 334.54
16. Seve Ballesteros, Spain, 1976-1991, 321.08
17. Phil Mickelson, United States, 1990-2006, 317.81
18. Greg Norman, Australia, 1979-1999, 316.82
19. Raymond Floyd, United States, 1965-1994, 309.32
20. James Braid, Scotland, 1894-1914, 301.63
21. Jim Barnes, Eng/U.S., 1913-1930, 301.11
22. Ernie Els, South Africa, 1992-2006, 290.15
23. Peter Thomson, Australia, 1951-1971, 277.10
24. Nick Price, Zimbabwe, 1982-2005, 267.98
25. Jimmy Demaret, United States, 1938-1962, 263.44
26. Bobby Locke, South Africa, 1936-1957, 259.75
27. Julius Boros, United States, 1950-1973, 252.92
28. Cary Middlecoff, United States, 1948-1959, 252.50
29. Craig Wood, United States, 1929-1944, 251.94
30. Billy Casper, United States, 1958-1976, 251.21
31. Ben Crenshaw, United States, 1972-1995, 243.52
32. Hale Irwin, United States, 1973-1993, 243.38
33. Ralph Guldahl, United States, 1933-1941, 237.13
34. Leo Diegel, United States, 1920-1933, 235.56
35. Willie Anderson Jr., Scot/U.S., 1898-1908, 223.50
36. Vijay Singh, Fiji, 1993-2006, 223.00
37. Tom Weiskopf, United States, 1969-1982, 222.43
38. Lloyd Mangrum, United States, 1940-1956, 221.60
39. Harold Hilton, England, 1892-1913, 221.50
40. Johnny Miller, United States, 1966-1985, 221.38
41. Paul Runyan, United States, 1931-1951, 221.13
42. Denny Shute, United States, 1928-1950, 219.25
43. Payne Stewart, United States, 1985-1999, 216.50
44. Henry Cotton, England, 1927-1958, 210.92
45. Jock Hutchison, Scot/U.S., 1908-1928, 210.25
46. Bernhard Langer, Germany, 1981-2005, 209.58
47. Ted Ray, England, 1902-1925, 204.88
48. Tommy Armour, Scot/US, 1925-1937, 202.63
49. Horton Smith, United States, 1928-1954, 198.31
50. Alex Smith, Scot/US, 1898-1921, 193.69
51. Henry Picard, United States, 1932-1950, 192.44
52. Hubert Green, United States, 1974-1989, 190.00
53. Mark O'Meara, United States, 1979-2003, 188.70
54. Tom Kite, United States, 1970-2001, 187.94
55. Fred Couples, United States, 1980-2006, 187.70
56. Lawson Little, United States, 1934-1951, 187.33
57. Jose Maria Olazabul, Spain, 1984-2006, 187.10
58. Lanny Wadkins, United States, 1970-1993, 185.50
59. Gene Littler, United States, 1953-1979, 184.00
60. Jim Furyk, United States, 1996-2007, 180.45
61. Davis Love III, United States, 1995-2005, 177.89
62. Jim Ferrier, Aus/U.S., 1936-1964, 176.50
63. Larry Nelson, United States, 1979-1991, 173.75
64. Johnny Farrell, United States, 1922-1937, 170.46
65. Curtis Strange, United States, 1980-1995, 170.17
66. Jack Burke Jr., United States, 1951-1965, 169.95
67. Harry Cooper, Eng/U.S., 1923-1942, 169.50
68. Doug Ford, United States, 1955-1962, 168.50
69. Tommy Bolt, United States, 1952-1971, 166.63
70. Retief Goosen, South Africa, 1997-2007, 166.50
71. Tony Jacklin, England, 1967-1972, 164.50
72. David Graham, Australia, 1975-1990, 163.70
Tiger Woods' second place finish allowed him to pick up more points, but his mad dash to overtake Jack Nicklaus as the greatest golfer has lost a little steam.
Here are the 72 greatest men golfers ever. Active golfers are in bold.
Rank, player, years, points
1. Jack Nicklaus, United States, 1959-1998, 858.59
2. Tiger Woods, United States, 1994-2007, 693.17
3. Ben Hogan, United States, 1939-1967, 583.95
4. Walter Hagen, United States, 1913-1940, 517.29
5. Arnold Palmer, United States, 1954-1977, 515.33
6. Tom Watson, United States, 1974-2000, 493.36
7. Gary Player, South Africa, 1956-1984, 477.43
8. Bobby Jones, United States, 1919-1930, 477.25
9. Sam Snead, United States, 1937-1974, 464.41
10. Gene Sarazen, United States, 1921-1956, 458.63
11. Nick Faldo, England, 1978-2003, 401.50
12. Byron Nelson, United States, 1935-1955, 367.54
13. Harry Vardon, England, 1894-1922, 351.50
14. J.H. Taylor, England, 1893-1925, 348.75
15. Lee Trevino, United States, 1967-1986, 334.54
16. Seve Ballesteros, Spain, 1976-1991, 321.08
17. Phil Mickelson, United States, 1990-2006, 317.81
18. Greg Norman, Australia, 1979-1999, 316.82
19. Raymond Floyd, United States, 1965-1994, 309.32
20. James Braid, Scotland, 1894-1914, 301.63
21. Jim Barnes, Eng/U.S., 1913-1930, 301.11
22. Ernie Els, South Africa, 1992-2006, 290.15
23. Peter Thomson, Australia, 1951-1971, 277.10
24. Nick Price, Zimbabwe, 1982-2005, 267.98
25. Jimmy Demaret, United States, 1938-1962, 263.44
26. Bobby Locke, South Africa, 1936-1957, 259.75
27. Julius Boros, United States, 1950-1973, 252.92
28. Cary Middlecoff, United States, 1948-1959, 252.50
29. Craig Wood, United States, 1929-1944, 251.94
30. Billy Casper, United States, 1958-1976, 251.21
31. Ben Crenshaw, United States, 1972-1995, 243.52
32. Hale Irwin, United States, 1973-1993, 243.38
33. Ralph Guldahl, United States, 1933-1941, 237.13
34. Leo Diegel, United States, 1920-1933, 235.56
35. Willie Anderson Jr., Scot/U.S., 1898-1908, 223.50
36. Vijay Singh, Fiji, 1993-2006, 223.00
37. Tom Weiskopf, United States, 1969-1982, 222.43
38. Lloyd Mangrum, United States, 1940-1956, 221.60
39. Harold Hilton, England, 1892-1913, 221.50
40. Johnny Miller, United States, 1966-1985, 221.38
41. Paul Runyan, United States, 1931-1951, 221.13
42. Denny Shute, United States, 1928-1950, 219.25
43. Payne Stewart, United States, 1985-1999, 216.50
44. Henry Cotton, England, 1927-1958, 210.92
45. Jock Hutchison, Scot/U.S., 1908-1928, 210.25
46. Bernhard Langer, Germany, 1981-2005, 209.58
47. Ted Ray, England, 1902-1925, 204.88
48. Tommy Armour, Scot/US, 1925-1937, 202.63
49. Horton Smith, United States, 1928-1954, 198.31
50. Alex Smith, Scot/US, 1898-1921, 193.69
51. Henry Picard, United States, 1932-1950, 192.44
52. Hubert Green, United States, 1974-1989, 190.00
53. Mark O'Meara, United States, 1979-2003, 188.70
54. Tom Kite, United States, 1970-2001, 187.94
55. Fred Couples, United States, 1980-2006, 187.70
56. Lawson Little, United States, 1934-1951, 187.33
57. Jose Maria Olazabul, Spain, 1984-2006, 187.10
58. Lanny Wadkins, United States, 1970-1993, 185.50
59. Gene Littler, United States, 1953-1979, 184.00
60. Jim Furyk, United States, 1996-2007, 180.45
61. Davis Love III, United States, 1995-2005, 177.89
62. Jim Ferrier, Aus/U.S., 1936-1964, 176.50
63. Larry Nelson, United States, 1979-1991, 173.75
64. Johnny Farrell, United States, 1922-1937, 170.46
65. Curtis Strange, United States, 1980-1995, 170.17
66. Jack Burke Jr., United States, 1951-1965, 169.95
67. Harry Cooper, Eng/U.S., 1923-1942, 169.50
68. Doug Ford, United States, 1955-1962, 168.50
69. Tommy Bolt, United States, 1952-1971, 166.63
70. Retief Goosen, South Africa, 1997-2007, 166.50
71. Tony Jacklin, England, 1967-1972, 164.50
72. David Graham, Australia, 1975-1990, 163.70
Sunday, June 10, 2007
No major movement in women's all-time golf tourney
Suzann Petterson's LPGA title moved her into 80th place in the Ultimate Women's Golf Tournament. She still has a ways to go to move into the top 48 and appear here.
In fact, very few of the big names scored. Karrie Webb finished second but still trails Annika Sorenstam by a large margin for No. 2.
Lorena Ochoa, who is ranked No. 1 but still yet to win a major title, is 61st.
Here are the updated rankings with active players in bold.
Rank, golfer, years, points
1. Mickey Wright, 1958-1973, 575.40
2. Annika Sorenstam, 1995-2006, 541.42
3. Karrie Webb, 1996-2007, 474.80
4. Pat Bradley, 1977-1996, 460.93
5. Julie Inkster, 1984-2006, 458.05
6. Kathy Whitworth, 1963-1984, 453.10
7. Patty Berg, 1937-1965, 441.50
8. Patty Sheehan, 1981-1997, 400.62
9. Louise Suggs, 1946-1969, 377.64
10. Amy Alcott, 1976-1994, 358.22
11. Sandra Haynie, 1963-1983, 353.00
12. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, 1940-1954, 350.00
13. Betsy Rawls, 1951-1969, 329.09
14. JoAnne Carner, 1970-1992, 321.85
15. Meg Mallon, 1990-2004, 321.63
16. Laura Davies, 1987-2005, 303.42
17. Nancy Lopez, 1975-1997, 298.88
18. Se Ri Pak, 1998-2007, 285.03
19. Donna Caponi, 1969-1982, 266.85
20. Beth Daniel, 1980-2006, 266.30
21. Susan Maxwell Berning, 1965-1979, 242.50
22. Mary Mills, 1963-1974, 232.45
23. Clifford-Ann Creed, 1963-1976, 230.20
24. Carol Mann, 1963-1975, 226.50
25. Dottie Pepper, 1988-2001, 221.25
26. Sandra Palmer, 1967-1986, 220.00
27. Jan Stephenson, 1976-2000, 216.25
28. Marilyn Smith, 1963-1972, 211.45
29. Hollis Stacy, 1976-1996, 207.51
30. Sally Little, 1975-1988, 205.47
31. Ayako Okamoto, 1983-1993, 204.93
32. Rosie Jones, 1983-2005, 200.53
33. Liselotte Neumann, 1988-2005, 198.45
34. Jane Geddes, 1985-1996, 178.30
35. Tammie Green, 1989-1998, 173.10
36. Kelly Robbins, 1994-2004, 158.80
37. Brandie Burton, 1991-2001, 151.00
38. Grace Park, 1999-2005, 136.60
39. Sherri Steinhauer, 1992-2006, 134.08
40. Jane Blalock, 1971-1980, 132.00
41. Judy Rankin, 1964-1979, 130.58
42. Judy Kimball-Simon, 1962-1967, 130.38
43. Beverly Hanson, 1955-1958, 130.00
44. Betty Jameson, 1942-1954, 130.00
45. Shirley Englehorn, 1963-1970, 124.25
46. Chris Johnson, 1983-2000, 122.50
47. Marlene Hagge, 1956-1972, 122.00
48. Nancy Scranton, 1986-2000, 120.50
In fact, very few of the big names scored. Karrie Webb finished second but still trails Annika Sorenstam by a large margin for No. 2.
Lorena Ochoa, who is ranked No. 1 but still yet to win a major title, is 61st.
Here are the updated rankings with active players in bold.
Rank, golfer, years, points
1. Mickey Wright, 1958-1973, 575.40
2. Annika Sorenstam, 1995-2006, 541.42
3. Karrie Webb, 1996-2007, 474.80
4. Pat Bradley, 1977-1996, 460.93
5. Julie Inkster, 1984-2006, 458.05
6. Kathy Whitworth, 1963-1984, 453.10
7. Patty Berg, 1937-1965, 441.50
8. Patty Sheehan, 1981-1997, 400.62
9. Louise Suggs, 1946-1969, 377.64
10. Amy Alcott, 1976-1994, 358.22
11. Sandra Haynie, 1963-1983, 353.00
12. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, 1940-1954, 350.00
13. Betsy Rawls, 1951-1969, 329.09
14. JoAnne Carner, 1970-1992, 321.85
15. Meg Mallon, 1990-2004, 321.63
16. Laura Davies, 1987-2005, 303.42
17. Nancy Lopez, 1975-1997, 298.88
18. Se Ri Pak, 1998-2007, 285.03
19. Donna Caponi, 1969-1982, 266.85
20. Beth Daniel, 1980-2006, 266.30
21. Susan Maxwell Berning, 1965-1979, 242.50
22. Mary Mills, 1963-1974, 232.45
23. Clifford-Ann Creed, 1963-1976, 230.20
24. Carol Mann, 1963-1975, 226.50
25. Dottie Pepper, 1988-2001, 221.25
26. Sandra Palmer, 1967-1986, 220.00
27. Jan Stephenson, 1976-2000, 216.25
28. Marilyn Smith, 1963-1972, 211.45
29. Hollis Stacy, 1976-1996, 207.51
30. Sally Little, 1975-1988, 205.47
31. Ayako Okamoto, 1983-1993, 204.93
32. Rosie Jones, 1983-2005, 200.53
33. Liselotte Neumann, 1988-2005, 198.45
34. Jane Geddes, 1985-1996, 178.30
35. Tammie Green, 1989-1998, 173.10
36. Kelly Robbins, 1994-2004, 158.80
37. Brandie Burton, 1991-2001, 151.00
38. Grace Park, 1999-2005, 136.60
39. Sherri Steinhauer, 1992-2006, 134.08
40. Jane Blalock, 1971-1980, 132.00
41. Judy Rankin, 1964-1979, 130.58
42. Judy Kimball-Simon, 1962-1967, 130.38
43. Beverly Hanson, 1955-1958, 130.00
44. Betty Jameson, 1942-1954, 130.00
45. Shirley Englehorn, 1963-1970, 124.25
46. Chris Johnson, 1983-2000, 122.50
47. Marlene Hagge, 1956-1972, 122.00
48. Nancy Scranton, 1986-2000, 120.50
Nadal keeps Federer at No. 5
Rafael Nadal jumped six spots in the Men's Ultimate Tournament Standings and kept Roger Federer, momentarily at No. 5, in the rankings.
Still, if Federer were to win Wimbledon and the U.S. Open, which he's done the past three years, he'll motor all the way to No. 1.
At least for today, though, it was Nadal making the major move. The updated standings after the French. Active players are in bold.
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Total
1. Pete Sampras, United States, 1990-2002, 656.50
2. Bjorn Borg, Sweden, 1974-1981, 648.50
3. Ivan Lendl, Czechoslovakia, 1981-1991, 619.50
4. Jimmy Connors, United States, 1974-1984, 597.00
5. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2003-2007, 596.00
6. John McEnroe, United States, 1979-1985, 558.00
7. Mats Wilander, Sweden, 1982-1988, 472.50
8. Andre Agassi, United States, 1990-2005, 470.00
9. Boris Becker, Germany, 1985-1996, 423.50
10. Stephan Edberg, Sweden, 1985-1993, 409.00
11. Rod Laver, Australia, 1968-1971, 355.50
12. Jim Courier, United States, 1991-1993, 334.50
13. Guillermo Vilas, Argentina, 1975-1982, 323.00
13. John Newcombe, Australia, 1968-1976, 323.00
15. Ken Rosewall, Australia, 1968-1974, 295.50
16. Rafael Nadal, Spain, 2005-2007, 231.00
17. Jan Kodes, Czechoslovakia, 1970-1973, 228.00
18. Arthur Ashe, United States, 1968-1975, 214.50
19. Illie Nastase, Romania, 1971-1976, 197.00
20. Lleyton Hewitt, Australia, 2001-2005, 192.50
21. Marat Safin, Russia, 2000-2005, 191.00
22. Gustavo Kuerten, Brazil, 1997-2001, 166.00
23. Stan Smith, United States, 1968-1980, 156.50
24. Pat Rafter, Australia, 1997-2001, 155.50
25. Yevgeny Kafelinikov, Russia, 1996-2000, 145.00
26. Pat Cash, Australia, 1987-1988, 141.00
27. Michael Chang, United States, 1989-1996, 134.00
28. Sergei Bruguera, Spain, 1993-1997, 133.00
29. Goran Ivanisevic, Croatia, 1992-2001, 131.00
30. Andy Roddick, United States, 2003-2006, 130.50
31. Michael Stich, Germany, 1991-1996, 121.50
32. Johan Kriek, South Africa, 1981-1982, 113.00
Still, if Federer were to win Wimbledon and the U.S. Open, which he's done the past three years, he'll motor all the way to No. 1.
At least for today, though, it was Nadal making the major move. The updated standings after the French. Active players are in bold.
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Total
1. Pete Sampras, United States, 1990-2002, 656.50
2. Bjorn Borg, Sweden, 1974-1981, 648.50
3. Ivan Lendl, Czechoslovakia, 1981-1991, 619.50
4. Jimmy Connors, United States, 1974-1984, 597.00
5. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2003-2007, 596.00
6. John McEnroe, United States, 1979-1985, 558.00
7. Mats Wilander, Sweden, 1982-1988, 472.50
8. Andre Agassi, United States, 1990-2005, 470.00
9. Boris Becker, Germany, 1985-1996, 423.50
10. Stephan Edberg, Sweden, 1985-1993, 409.00
11. Rod Laver, Australia, 1968-1971, 355.50
12. Jim Courier, United States, 1991-1993, 334.50
13. Guillermo Vilas, Argentina, 1975-1982, 323.00
13. John Newcombe, Australia, 1968-1976, 323.00
15. Ken Rosewall, Australia, 1968-1974, 295.50
16. Rafael Nadal, Spain, 2005-2007, 231.00
17. Jan Kodes, Czechoslovakia, 1970-1973, 228.00
18. Arthur Ashe, United States, 1968-1975, 214.50
19. Illie Nastase, Romania, 1971-1976, 197.00
20. Lleyton Hewitt, Australia, 2001-2005, 192.50
21. Marat Safin, Russia, 2000-2005, 191.00
22. Gustavo Kuerten, Brazil, 1997-2001, 166.00
23. Stan Smith, United States, 1968-1980, 156.50
24. Pat Rafter, Australia, 1997-2001, 155.50
25. Yevgeny Kafelinikov, Russia, 1996-2000, 145.00
26. Pat Cash, Australia, 1987-1988, 141.00
27. Michael Chang, United States, 1989-1996, 134.00
28. Sergei Bruguera, Spain, 1993-1997, 133.00
29. Goran Ivanisevic, Croatia, 1992-2001, 131.00
30. Andy Roddick, United States, 2003-2006, 130.50
31. Michael Stich, Germany, 1991-1996, 121.50
32. Johan Kriek, South Africa, 1981-1982, 113.00
Henin closing in on best of her generation
Justin Henin's sixth major title, and fourth French Open, means she's clearly the best clay court player of her generation. While she is closing in on Venus Williams and Martina Hingis, she's still a few titles from moving past Serena Williams in the Ultimate Woman's Tennis Tournament rankings.
Here are the top 32 women players of the Open Era after the French Open. Active players are in bold.
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Points
1. Martina Navratilova, Czechoslovakia, 1974-2006, 1308.50
2. Steffi Graf, Germany, 1987-1999, 1215.50
3. Chris Evert-Lloyd, United States, 1973-1988, 953.50
4. Monica Seles, Yugoslavia, 1990-1998, 684.00
5. Margaret Smith-Court, Australia, 1968-1975, 675.00
6. Billie Jean King, United States, 1968-1979, 650.50
7. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, Australia, 1971-1980, 579.50
8. Serena Williams, United States, 1999-2007, 491.50
9. Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Spain, 1989-1998, 468.50
10. Martina Hingis, Switzerland, 1996-2006, 446.50
11. Venus Williams, United States, 1997-2005, 413.50
12. Justine Henin, Belgium, 2001-2007, 380.00
13. Hana Mandlikova, Czechoslovakia, 1980-1987, 334.00
14. Lindsay Davenport, United States, 1998-2005, 312.00
15. Virginia Wade, England, 1968-1977, 197.00
16. Mary Pierce, France, 1994-2005, 194.00
17. Tracy Austin, United States, 1979-1981, 186.50
18. Jennifer Capriati, United States, 2001-2002, 184.00
19. Gabriela Sabatini, Argentina, 1988-1991, 165.00
19. Amelie Mauresmo, France, 1999-2006, 165.00
21. Maria Sharapova, Russia, 2004-2007, 158.00
22. Kim Clijsters, Belgium, 2001-2005, 151.00
23. Jana Novotna, Czechoslovakia, 1991-1998, 150.00
24. Ann Haydon-Jones, England, 1968-1969, 141.00
25. Conchita Martinez, Spain, 1994-2000, 140.00
26. Virginia Ruzici, Romania, 1978-1980, 107.50
27. Kerry Melville-Reid, Australia, 1970-1977, 103.00
28. Mimi Jausovec, Yugoslavia, 1977-1983, 97.00
29. Helena Sukova, Czechoslovakia, 1984-1993, 94.50
30. Christine O'Neill, Australia, 1978, 85.00
31. Svetlana Kuznetsova, Russia, 2004-2006, 82.00
32. Wendy Turnbill, United States, 1977-1980, 80.00
Here are the top 32 women players of the Open Era after the French Open. Active players are in bold.
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Points
1. Martina Navratilova, Czechoslovakia, 1974-2006, 1308.50
2. Steffi Graf, Germany, 1987-1999, 1215.50
3. Chris Evert-Lloyd, United States, 1973-1988, 953.50
4. Monica Seles, Yugoslavia, 1990-1998, 684.00
5. Margaret Smith-Court, Australia, 1968-1975, 675.00
6. Billie Jean King, United States, 1968-1979, 650.50
7. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, Australia, 1971-1980, 579.50
8. Serena Williams, United States, 1999-2007, 491.50
9. Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Spain, 1989-1998, 468.50
10. Martina Hingis, Switzerland, 1996-2006, 446.50
11. Venus Williams, United States, 1997-2005, 413.50
12. Justine Henin, Belgium, 2001-2007, 380.00
13. Hana Mandlikova, Czechoslovakia, 1980-1987, 334.00
14. Lindsay Davenport, United States, 1998-2005, 312.00
15. Virginia Wade, England, 1968-1977, 197.00
16. Mary Pierce, France, 1994-2005, 194.00
17. Tracy Austin, United States, 1979-1981, 186.50
18. Jennifer Capriati, United States, 2001-2002, 184.00
19. Gabriela Sabatini, Argentina, 1988-1991, 165.00
19. Amelie Mauresmo, France, 1999-2006, 165.00
21. Maria Sharapova, Russia, 2004-2007, 158.00
22. Kim Clijsters, Belgium, 2001-2005, 151.00
23. Jana Novotna, Czechoslovakia, 1991-1998, 150.00
24. Ann Haydon-Jones, England, 1968-1969, 141.00
25. Conchita Martinez, Spain, 1994-2000, 140.00
26. Virginia Ruzici, Romania, 1978-1980, 107.50
27. Kerry Melville-Reid, Australia, 1970-1977, 103.00
28. Mimi Jausovec, Yugoslavia, 1977-1983, 97.00
29. Helena Sukova, Czechoslovakia, 1984-1993, 94.50
30. Christine O'Neill, Australia, 1978, 85.00
31. Svetlana Kuznetsova, Russia, 2004-2006, 82.00
32. Wendy Turnbill, United States, 1977-1980, 80.00
Sunday, January 28, 2007
Roger roars past McEnroe
Another major victory, another player passed in the all-time tennis tournament. Roger Federer's 10th major title -- out of 11 finals -- moved him past John McEnroe.
If Federer wins another title this year, he'll pass Connors. Two more this year would move him past Lendl. If he wins the Grand Slam, he'll move to No. 1 and may move the point total so high, no one can reach it.
Here are the updated standings (active players in bold):
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Total
1. Pete Sampras, United States, 1990-2002, 656.50
2. Bjorn Borg, Sweden, 1974-1981, 648.50
3. Ivan Lendl, Czechoslovakia, 1981-1991, 619.50
4. Jimmy Connors, United States, 1974-1984, 597.00
5. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2003-2007, 562.50
6. John McEnroe, United States, 1979-1985, 558.00
7. Mats Wilander, Sweden, 1982-1988, 472.50
8. Andre Agassi, United States, 1990-2005, 470.00
9. Boris Becker, Germany, 1985-1996, 423.50
10. Stephan Edberg, Sweden, 1985-1993, 409.00
11. Rod Laver, Australia, 1968-1971, 355.50
12. Jim Courier, United States, 1991-1993, 334.50
13. Guillermo Vilas, Argentina, 1975-1982, 323.00
13. John Newcombe, Australia, 1968-1976, 323.00
15. Ken Rosewall, Australia, 1968-1974, 295.50
16. Jan Kodes, Czechoslovakia, 1970-1973, 228.00
17. Arthur Ashe, United States, 1968-1975, 214.50
18. Illie Nastase, Romania, 1971-1976, 197.00
19. Lleyton Hewitt, Australia, 2001-2005, 192.50
20. Marat Safin, Russia, 2000-2005, 191.00
21. Gustavo Kuerten, Brazil, 1997-2001, 166.00
22. Rafael Nadal, Spain, 2005-2006, 163.00
23. Stan Smith, United States, 1968-1980, 156.50
24. Pat Rafter, Australia, 1997-2001, 155.50
25. Yevgeny Kafelinikov, Russia, 1996-2000, 145.00
26. Pat Cash, Australia, 1987-1988, 141.00
27. Michael Chang, United States, 1989-1996, 134.00
28. Sergei Bruguera, Spain, 1993-1997, 133.00
29. Goran Ivanisevic, Croatia, 1992-2001, 131.00
30. Andy Roddick, United States, 2003-2006, 130.50
31. Michael Stich, Germany, 1991-1996, 121.50
32. Johan Kriek, South Africa, 1981-1982, 113.00
If Federer wins another title this year, he'll pass Connors. Two more this year would move him past Lendl. If he wins the Grand Slam, he'll move to No. 1 and may move the point total so high, no one can reach it.
Here are the updated standings (active players in bold):
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Total
1. Pete Sampras, United States, 1990-2002, 656.50
2. Bjorn Borg, Sweden, 1974-1981, 648.50
3. Ivan Lendl, Czechoslovakia, 1981-1991, 619.50
4. Jimmy Connors, United States, 1974-1984, 597.00
5. Roger Federer, Switzerland, 2003-2007, 562.50
6. John McEnroe, United States, 1979-1985, 558.00
7. Mats Wilander, Sweden, 1982-1988, 472.50
8. Andre Agassi, United States, 1990-2005, 470.00
9. Boris Becker, Germany, 1985-1996, 423.50
10. Stephan Edberg, Sweden, 1985-1993, 409.00
11. Rod Laver, Australia, 1968-1971, 355.50
12. Jim Courier, United States, 1991-1993, 334.50
13. Guillermo Vilas, Argentina, 1975-1982, 323.00
13. John Newcombe, Australia, 1968-1976, 323.00
15. Ken Rosewall, Australia, 1968-1974, 295.50
16. Jan Kodes, Czechoslovakia, 1970-1973, 228.00
17. Arthur Ashe, United States, 1968-1975, 214.50
18. Illie Nastase, Romania, 1971-1976, 197.00
19. Lleyton Hewitt, Australia, 2001-2005, 192.50
20. Marat Safin, Russia, 2000-2005, 191.00
21. Gustavo Kuerten, Brazil, 1997-2001, 166.00
22. Rafael Nadal, Spain, 2005-2006, 163.00
23. Stan Smith, United States, 1968-1980, 156.50
24. Pat Rafter, Australia, 1997-2001, 155.50
25. Yevgeny Kafelinikov, Russia, 1996-2000, 145.00
26. Pat Cash, Australia, 1987-1988, 141.00
27. Michael Chang, United States, 1989-1996, 134.00
28. Sergei Bruguera, Spain, 1993-1997, 133.00
29. Goran Ivanisevic, Croatia, 1992-2001, 131.00
30. Andy Roddick, United States, 2003-2006, 130.50
31. Michael Stich, Germany, 1991-1996, 121.50
32. Johan Kriek, South Africa, 1981-1982, 113.00
Saturday, January 27, 2007
So Serena is not done yet
Serena Williams' dismantling of Maria Sharapova may have been the most dominant performance by a woman I've ever seen. This was after Sharapova looked like her power was going to lead her to a dominant run this year.
Instead, Williams blew her right off the court. It makes you wonder how many titles she could have had now had she concentrated more on tennis and how many more she'd like to win. It seems the only thing stopping her is health and dedication.
With the win, Williams moved up one spot in the ultimate women's tennis tournament and widened her lead as the best player of this generation, while Sharapova moved up several despite the disheartening defeat.
Active players (Venus Williams included) are in bold:
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Points
1. Martina Navratilova, Czechoslovakia, 1974-2006, 1308.50
2. Steffi Graf, Germany, 1987-1999, 1215.50
3. Chris Evert-Lloyd, United States, 1973-1988, 953.50
4. Monica Seles, Yugoslavia, 1990-1998, 684.00
5. Margaret Smith-Court, Australia, 1968-1975, 675.00
6. Billie Jean King, United States, 1968-1979, 650.50
7. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, Australia, 1971-1980, 579.50
8. Serena Williams, United States, 1999-2007, 491.50
9. Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Spain, 1989-1998, 468.50
10. Martina Hingis, Switzerland, 1996-2006, 446.50
11. Venus Williams, United States, 1997-2005, 411.00
12. Justine Henin-Hardenne, Belgium, 2001-2006, 350.00
13. Hana Mandlikova, Czechoslovakia, 1980-1987, 334.00
14. Lindsay Davenport, United States, 1998-2005, 312.00
15. Virginia Wade, England, 1968-1977, 197.00
16. Mary Pierce, France, 1994-2005, 194.00
17. Tracy Austin, United States, 1979-1981, 186.50
18. Jennifer Capriati, United States, 2001-2002, 184.00
19. Gabriela Sabatini, Argentina, 1988-1991, 165.00
20. Amelie Mauresmo, France, 1999-2006, 160.00
21. Maria Sharapova, Russia, 2004-2007, 158.00
22. Kim Clijsters, Belgium, 2001-2005, 151.00
23. Jana Novotna, Czechoslovakia, 1991-1998, 150.00
24. Ann Haydon-Jones, England, 1968-1969, 141.00
25. Conchita Martinez, Spain, 1994-2000, 140.00
26. Virginia Ruzici, Romania, 1978-1980, 107.50
27. Kerry Melville-Reid, Australia, 1970-1977, 103.00
28. Mimi Jausovec, Yugoslavia, 1977-1983, 97.00
29. Helena Sukova, Czechoslovakia, 1984-1993, 94.50
30. Christine O'Neill, Australia, 1978, 85.00
31. Svetlana Kuznetsova, Russia, 2004-2006, 82.00
32. Wendy Turnbill, United States, 1977-1980, 80.00
Instead, Williams blew her right off the court. It makes you wonder how many titles she could have had now had she concentrated more on tennis and how many more she'd like to win. It seems the only thing stopping her is health and dedication.
With the win, Williams moved up one spot in the ultimate women's tennis tournament and widened her lead as the best player of this generation, while Sharapova moved up several despite the disheartening defeat.
Active players (Venus Williams included) are in bold:
Rank, Player, Country, Years, Points
1. Martina Navratilova, Czechoslovakia, 1974-2006, 1308.50
2. Steffi Graf, Germany, 1987-1999, 1215.50
3. Chris Evert-Lloyd, United States, 1973-1988, 953.50
4. Monica Seles, Yugoslavia, 1990-1998, 684.00
5. Margaret Smith-Court, Australia, 1968-1975, 675.00
6. Billie Jean King, United States, 1968-1979, 650.50
7. Evonne Goolagong-Cawley, Australia, 1971-1980, 579.50
8. Serena Williams, United States, 1999-2007, 491.50
9. Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario, Spain, 1989-1998, 468.50
10. Martina Hingis, Switzerland, 1996-2006, 446.50
11. Venus Williams, United States, 1997-2005, 411.00
12. Justine Henin-Hardenne, Belgium, 2001-2006, 350.00
13. Hana Mandlikova, Czechoslovakia, 1980-1987, 334.00
14. Lindsay Davenport, United States, 1998-2005, 312.00
15. Virginia Wade, England, 1968-1977, 197.00
16. Mary Pierce, France, 1994-2005, 194.00
17. Tracy Austin, United States, 1979-1981, 186.50
18. Jennifer Capriati, United States, 2001-2002, 184.00
19. Gabriela Sabatini, Argentina, 1988-1991, 165.00
20. Amelie Mauresmo, France, 1999-2006, 160.00
21. Maria Sharapova, Russia, 2004-2007, 158.00
22. Kim Clijsters, Belgium, 2001-2005, 151.00
23. Jana Novotna, Czechoslovakia, 1991-1998, 150.00
24. Ann Haydon-Jones, England, 1968-1969, 141.00
25. Conchita Martinez, Spain, 1994-2000, 140.00
26. Virginia Ruzici, Romania, 1978-1980, 107.50
27. Kerry Melville-Reid, Australia, 1970-1977, 103.00
28. Mimi Jausovec, Yugoslavia, 1977-1983, 97.00
29. Helena Sukova, Czechoslovakia, 1984-1993, 94.50
30. Christine O'Neill, Australia, 1978, 85.00
31. Svetlana Kuznetsova, Russia, 2004-2006, 82.00
32. Wendy Turnbill, United States, 1977-1980, 80.00
Thursday, January 25, 2007
Pound for pound, the greatest 100 boxers ever
For my ranking of the greatest boxers in history, I deviated from my systems in the other sports that are set up to incorporate current results. What you'll find below are the 100 greatest boxers inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.
Boxing today has too many divisions and champions today to keep up with unless you are really a hardcore fan. I plan on updating my standings each year when the newest edition of The Boxing Register is updated. The Register has the records and opponents of the more than 200 fighters in the IBHOF.
So while you will see fighters such as Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler in the rankings, you won't see Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns, Evander Holyfield or Bernard Hopkins. Hearns, Holyfield and Hopkins aren't eligible and Duran was just announced as an inductee. His results will be in the next Register and Duran will take his place somewhere in the rankings.
How did I rank the fighters? Weighting their victories and then dividing the points by a set number of fights to take away the advantage fighters who fought relatively few times had in my system over the old timers who stepped into the ring hundreds of times.
Basically, I gave fighters points -- or deducted in cases of when they were KO'd -- for wins over certain level of fighters.
First, a fighter received a score for his overall record, all wins and KOs worth the same, regardless of quality.
Then I broke the wins down in four ways:
Title fights against fellow Hall of Famers
Other title fights
Non title fights against Hall of Famers
All other bouts
Originally, I was going to give 6 points for a title win over Hall of Famers, plus 3 points if won in a knockout, 3 points (+1.5 for knockouts) for other title fight wins as well as non title fights against Hall of Famers and 1 point (+.5 for knockouts) for all other fights.
I had to tweak the original plan because of the growing number of divisions over the years. It is far easier for fighters today to line up championship fights because there are 17 weight divisions today versus the eight of much of the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. There are several IBHOF members from the early part of 20th century who never received even one title shot.
Title fight victories in matches before 1950 was increased to 4.5 points with 2.25 points for a knockout. Championship wins from the 1950s through the 1970s was moved up to 3.75 with 1.875 for KOs and title wins from the 1980s and on are worth the 3 points.
I also had to tweak the heavyweight division. Since the growing number of weight classes had zero affect on the heaviest division, title wins for heavyweights has two breakdowns -- 3 points for wins from 1980 on and 3.75 points for wins before 1980. The change there is more a result of the multiple licensing bodies. Before 1980, there generally was just one champion. Today, there are four.
I also created a 4.5 point division in the heavyweight division for Black Heavyweight title fights. In the days of Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey, several great black heavyweights were forced to fight each other time and again because no one would risk the heavyweight title against them. Was Dempsey really better than Harry Wills. We'll never know for sure.
How does it breakdown? Let's look at two Hall of Fame middleweights, Carlos Monzon and Jake LaMotta.
LaMotta ran up a career record of 83-19-4 with 30 KOs and he was knocked out 4 times. I took his winning percentage and converted his record to what it would have looked like with 60 fights. LaMatta would have been 47-11-2 with 17 knockouts while being KO'd twice. That scored him 55.472 points. Monzon's record (87-3-9-59-0) would have boiled down to 53-2-6 with 36 knockouts, giving him 73.3 points. Power punchers, because of the bonus points, are going to have an advantage in my system, as well they should. A KO is always more definitive than even the most dominant decision.
Next, fighters earned points for the quality of competition. LaMotta was 1-1 against Hall of Famers in title fights with 1 KO while getting stopped once. He scored 8.5 points in those matches in my system. Monzon was 5-0 with 4 KOs, giving him 42 points.
LaMotta was 2-0 in his other title fights in the 3.75 a win era, while Monzon was 11-0 with 7 KOs in the same era where each win was worth 3.75 points. LaMotta received 9.375 points while Monzon scored 54.375 for those wins.
In matchups with Hall of Famers in non-title fights, LaMotta went 4-5 with all fights going the distance. He scored 12 points in those fights. In my system, a fighter does not lose points with a loss unless he is knocked out. He just gets zero points, which drives his average down. Fighters with large loss totals generally don't score well unless they had many, many quality wins.
Monzon, as is increasingly common in the modern era, did not face a Hall of Famer in a non-title bout.
Finally, I boiled a fighter's record in all other fights down to the 60 fight average, deducting the quality fights. So Monzon, who fought 16 title fights, had 44 matches against non-Hall of Famers in my system. He was 71-3-9 in those matches in his career and that was whittled down to 38-2-5 with 25 KOs, which earned him 52.747 points in those matches.
LaMotta had 13 fights either for the title or against Hall of Famers leaving him 47 matches out of 60 against "others." His career record in those matches was 76-13-4 and whittling that down to 47 would have given him a 38-7-2 record with 14 knockouts. That was worth 41.946 points.
To come up with a final score, simply add up all those points and divide by 60. LaMotta scored 127.29 points for a 60-fight score of 2.122. You won't see him in my top 100 despite the fact "Raging Bull" is so critically acclaimed.
Monzon scored 222.46 points for a final 60-fight score of 3.708. He is one of the top fighters ever.
Each year, there will be some fluctuations in scores as more fighters are added to the Hall. For example, Marvin Hagler's greatest win -- the knockout of Tommie Hearns -- earned him 4.5 points so far -- 3 points for the post 1980s title fight win and a 1.5 point knockout bonus.
When Hearns is elected to the Hall, Hagler's point total for that fight doubles. He'll get six points for a title fight win over a Hall of Famer and 3 points for the knockout.
Without using further space, here's my top 100 fighters in the International Boxing Hall of Fame:
Rank, Boxer, Years, Total points, Classes
100. Fighting Harada, 1960-70, 2.435, Bantam/Fly
99. Ismael Laguna, 1961-71, 2.438, Lightweight
98. Pancho Villa, 1919-25, 2.442, Flyweight
97. Laszlo Papp, 1957-64, 2.448, Middleweight
96. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, 2.452, Lightweight
95. Sugar Ramos, 1957-72, 2.457, Featherweight
94. Young Stribling, 1921-33, 2.459, Heavyweight
93. Paul Berlenbach, 1923-33, 2.464, Light heavyweight
92. Ken Buchanan, 1965-82, 2.471, Lightweight
91. Harry Wills, 1910-32, 2.473, Heavyweight
90. Jack Dillon, 1908-23, 2.477, Light heavyweight
89. Pipino Cuevas, 1971-89, 2.487, Welterweight
88. Jimmy McLarnin, 1923-36, 2.496, Welterweight
87. Marcel Thil, 1920-37, 2.519, Middleweight
86. Flash Elorde, 1951-71, 2.527, Jr. Lightweight
85. Tony Zale, 1934-48, 2.537, Middleweight
84. Jack Delaney, 1919-32, 2.537, Light heavyweight
83. Tommy Gibbons, 1911-25, 2.555, Heavyweight
82. Freddie Miller, 1927-40, 2.555, Featherweight
81. Bobby Chacon, 1972-88, 2.573, Jr. Light/Feather
80. Jackie "Kid" Berg, 1924-45, 2.578, Jr. Welterweight
79. Charles "Kid" McCoy, 1891-16, 2.583, Middleweight
78. Ingemar Johansson, 1952-63, 2.584, Heavyweight
77. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, 2.591, Middleweight
76. Packey McFarland, 1904-15, 2.599, Lightweight
75. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, 2.602, Jr. Mid/Welter/Jr. Welter
74. Kid Chocolate, 1928-38, 2.608, Jr. Light/Feather
73. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, 2.638, Lightweight
72. Joe Jeannette, 1904-19, 2.643, Heavyweight
71. Mickey Walker, 1919-35, 2.650, Middleweight
70. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, 2.662, Light heavyweight
69. Nino Benvenuti, 1961-71, 2.667, Middle/Jr. Mid
68. Barry McGuigan, 1981-89, 2.674, Featherweight
67. Edwin Rosario, 1979-97, 2.675, Jr. Welter/Light
66. Jose Torres, 1958-69, 2.688, Light heavyweight
65. Carlos Palomino, 1972-98, 2.701, Welterweight
64. Daniel Zaragoza, 1980-97, 2.701, Jr. Feather/Bantam
63. Harry Greb, 1913-26, 2.711, Middleweight
62. Jeff Chandler, 1976-84, 2.716, Bantamweight
61. Freddie Steele, 1928-41, 2.719, Middleweight
60. Sonny Liston, 1953-70, 2.728, Heavyweight
59. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, 2.731, Light heavyweight
58. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, 2.732, Featherweight
57. Jimmy Wilde, 1910-23, 2.756, Flyweight
56. Emile Griffith, 1958-77, 2.761, Middle/Welter
55. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, 2.766, Bantamweight
54. Gene Fullmer, 1951-63, 2.768, Middleweight
53. Bob Fitzsimmons, 1883-14, 2.800, Heavy/Lt. Heavy/Mid
52. Ruben Olivares, 1965-88, 2.800, Feather/Bantam
51. Jack Johnson, 1897-28, 2.861, Heavyweight
50. Jeff Fenech, 1984-96, 2.862, Feather/Jr. Feather/Bantam
49. Tony Canzoneri, 1925-39, 2.874, Jr. Welter/Light/Feather
48. Ike Williams, 1940-55, 2.903, Lightweight
47. Pascual Perez, 1952-64, 2.915, Flyweight
46. Floyd Patterson, 1952-72, 2.955, Heavyweight
45. Johnny Coulon, 1905-20, 2.965, Bantamweight
44. Abe Attell, 1900-17, 2.978, Featherweight
43. Bob Foster, 1961-78, 2.980, Light heavyweight
42. Terry Norris, 1986-98, 2.986, Jr. Middleweight
41. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, 2.993, Heavyweight
40. Sandy Saddler, 1944-56, 2.997, Jr. Light/Feather
39. Ezzard Charles, 1940-59, 3.013, Heavyweight
38. Tommy Burns, 1900-20, 3.035, Heavyweight
37. Mike McCallum, 1981-97, 3.051, Lt. Heavy/Middle/Jr. Mid
36. Willie Pep, 1940-66, 3.066, Featherweight
35. Eusebio Pedroza, 1973-92, 3.098, Featherweight
34. Vicente Saldivar, 1961-73, 3.119, Featherweight
33. Benny Leonard, 1911-32, 3.136, Lightweight
32. Barney Ross, 1929-38, 3.138, Welter/Jr. Welter/Light
31. Archie Moore, 1936-63, 3.171, Light heavyweight
30. Sugar Ray Leonard, 1977-97, 3.180, Lt. Heavy/Sup. Mid/Middle/Jr. Mid/Welter
29. George Foreman, 1969-97, 3.186, Heavyweight
28. Stanley Ketchel, 1904-10, 3.188, Middleweight
27. Joe Frazier, 1965-81, 3.196, Heavyweight
26. Salvador Sanchez, 1975-82, 3.201, Featherweight
25. Terry McGovern, 1897-08, 3.205, Feather/Bantam
24. Chiquita Gonzalez, 1984-95, 3.234, Jr. Flyweight
23. Michael Spinks, 1977-88, 3.246, Heavy/Lt. Heavy
22. Gene Tunney, 1915-28, 3.250, Heavy/Lt. Heavy
21. Michael Carbajal, 1989-99, 3.269, Jr. Flyweight
20. Eder Jofre, 1957-76, 3.269, Feather/Bantam
19. Antonio Cervantes, 1964-83, 3.297, Jr. Welterweight
18. Marvin Hagler, 1973-87, 3.356, Middleweight
17. Azumah Nelson, 1979-98, 3.360, Jr. Light/Feather
16. Carlos Ortiz, 1955-72, 3.370, Jr. Welter/Light
15. James Jeffries, 1896-10, 3.371, Heavyweight
14. Jose Napoles, 1958-75, 3.399, Welterweight
13. Carlos Zarate, 1970-88, 3.429, Bantamweight
12. Aaron Pryor, 1976-90, 3.470, Jr. Welterweight
11. Manuel Ortiz, 1938-55, 3.470, Bantamweight
10. Joe Gans, 1891-09, 3.599, Lightweight
9. Rocky Marciano, 1947-55, 3.648, Heavyweight
8. Alexis Arguello, 1968-95, 3.650, Light/Jr. Light/Feather
7. Carlos Monzon, 1963-77, 3.708, Middleweight
6. Khaosai Galaxy, 1980-91, 3.723, Jr. Bantamweight
5. Wilfredo Gomez, 1974-89, 3.973, Jr. Light/Feather/Jr. Feather
4. Sugar Ray Robinson, 1940-65, 4.150, Middle/Welter
3. Muhammad Ali, 1960-81, 4.345, Heavyweight
2. Henry Armstrong, 1931-45, 4.346, Welter/Light/Feather
1. Joe Louis, 1934-51, 4.865, Heavyweight
I'll admit there are a few headscratchers in here. Wilfredo Gomez No. 5 all-time. Well, he had a stellar record, 44-3-1 with 42 knockouts and the knockouts pushed his score upward. Plus, he was a remarkable 21-3 with 19 knockouts in title fights.
Henry Armstrong over Sugar Ray Robinson? Armstrong was just 3-3 in Hall of Fame title fights while Robinson was 10-5-1. But Armstrong was 19-0-1 with 16 KOs in his other title fights and 6-2 against Hall of Famers in non-title bouts. Robinson was 7-2 in his other title fights and although he was 11-1 against Hall of Famers in non-title bouts, he had just one KO in those fights.
There were several heavyweight surprises. Liston is below Floyd Patterson, who he crushed twice, because those were his only title fight wins. Patterson had several defenses before running into Liston.
Jack Dempsey is very low at No. 42 (behind Ezzard Charles and Tommy Burns), while Jack Johnson finished even worse at No. 52, while Jim Jeffries was No. 15.
Dempsey held the heavyweight title but defended it few times. He only had 10 fights for titles or against Hall of Famers. Johnson also was hurt by inactivity -- once he won the title he refused to defend it against fellow black Hall of Famers Sam Langford, Harry Wills or Joe Jeannette -- but also a poor overall record. Johnson lost 13 fights and was knocked out seven times, dragging down his score. Some of those may have been dives. In fact, there are lots of curious losses among these fighters that may have been gangster influenced. I can't judge those. I just added up the points.
Burns is a special case. Lightly regarded by most, he was a very active champion -- if only to keep Johnson off his tail -- with a 11-1 record in title fights with nine KOs.
Marciano never lost and he had a fine record in his title fights and fights against Hall of Famers -- 8-0 with 7 KOs. He just didn't fight enough of them. Rocky had the top career score of any figher -- 86.3 with Galaxy next at 84.7 -- but his point total from title fights ranked just 45th. If he had stuck around long enough to beat Patterson and Liston, he would have been able to move into the Ali, Louis point totals.
Boxing today has too many divisions and champions today to keep up with unless you are really a hardcore fan. I plan on updating my standings each year when the newest edition of The Boxing Register is updated. The Register has the records and opponents of the more than 200 fighters in the IBHOF.
So while you will see fighters such as Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler in the rankings, you won't see Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns, Evander Holyfield or Bernard Hopkins. Hearns, Holyfield and Hopkins aren't eligible and Duran was just announced as an inductee. His results will be in the next Register and Duran will take his place somewhere in the rankings.
How did I rank the fighters? Weighting their victories and then dividing the points by a set number of fights to take away the advantage fighters who fought relatively few times had in my system over the old timers who stepped into the ring hundreds of times.
Basically, I gave fighters points -- or deducted in cases of when they were KO'd -- for wins over certain level of fighters.
First, a fighter received a score for his overall record, all wins and KOs worth the same, regardless of quality.
Then I broke the wins down in four ways:
Title fights against fellow Hall of Famers
Other title fights
Non title fights against Hall of Famers
All other bouts
Originally, I was going to give 6 points for a title win over Hall of Famers, plus 3 points if won in a knockout, 3 points (+1.5 for knockouts) for other title fight wins as well as non title fights against Hall of Famers and 1 point (+.5 for knockouts) for all other fights.
I had to tweak the original plan because of the growing number of divisions over the years. It is far easier for fighters today to line up championship fights because there are 17 weight divisions today versus the eight of much of the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. There are several IBHOF members from the early part of 20th century who never received even one title shot.
Title fight victories in matches before 1950 was increased to 4.5 points with 2.25 points for a knockout. Championship wins from the 1950s through the 1970s was moved up to 3.75 with 1.875 for KOs and title wins from the 1980s and on are worth the 3 points.
I also had to tweak the heavyweight division. Since the growing number of weight classes had zero affect on the heaviest division, title wins for heavyweights has two breakdowns -- 3 points for wins from 1980 on and 3.75 points for wins before 1980. The change there is more a result of the multiple licensing bodies. Before 1980, there generally was just one champion. Today, there are four.
I also created a 4.5 point division in the heavyweight division for Black Heavyweight title fights. In the days of Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey, several great black heavyweights were forced to fight each other time and again because no one would risk the heavyweight title against them. Was Dempsey really better than Harry Wills. We'll never know for sure.
How does it breakdown? Let's look at two Hall of Fame middleweights, Carlos Monzon and Jake LaMotta.
LaMotta ran up a career record of 83-19-4 with 30 KOs and he was knocked out 4 times. I took his winning percentage and converted his record to what it would have looked like with 60 fights. LaMatta would have been 47-11-2 with 17 knockouts while being KO'd twice. That scored him 55.472 points. Monzon's record (87-3-9-59-0) would have boiled down to 53-2-6 with 36 knockouts, giving him 73.3 points. Power punchers, because of the bonus points, are going to have an advantage in my system, as well they should. A KO is always more definitive than even the most dominant decision.
Next, fighters earned points for the quality of competition. LaMotta was 1-1 against Hall of Famers in title fights with 1 KO while getting stopped once. He scored 8.5 points in those matches in my system. Monzon was 5-0 with 4 KOs, giving him 42 points.
LaMotta was 2-0 in his other title fights in the 3.75 a win era, while Monzon was 11-0 with 7 KOs in the same era where each win was worth 3.75 points. LaMotta received 9.375 points while Monzon scored 54.375 for those wins.
In matchups with Hall of Famers in non-title fights, LaMotta went 4-5 with all fights going the distance. He scored 12 points in those fights. In my system, a fighter does not lose points with a loss unless he is knocked out. He just gets zero points, which drives his average down. Fighters with large loss totals generally don't score well unless they had many, many quality wins.
Monzon, as is increasingly common in the modern era, did not face a Hall of Famer in a non-title bout.
Finally, I boiled a fighter's record in all other fights down to the 60 fight average, deducting the quality fights. So Monzon, who fought 16 title fights, had 44 matches against non-Hall of Famers in my system. He was 71-3-9 in those matches in his career and that was whittled down to 38-2-5 with 25 KOs, which earned him 52.747 points in those matches.
LaMotta had 13 fights either for the title or against Hall of Famers leaving him 47 matches out of 60 against "others." His career record in those matches was 76-13-4 and whittling that down to 47 would have given him a 38-7-2 record with 14 knockouts. That was worth 41.946 points.
To come up with a final score, simply add up all those points and divide by 60. LaMotta scored 127.29 points for a 60-fight score of 2.122. You won't see him in my top 100 despite the fact "Raging Bull" is so critically acclaimed.
Monzon scored 222.46 points for a final 60-fight score of 3.708. He is one of the top fighters ever.
Each year, there will be some fluctuations in scores as more fighters are added to the Hall. For example, Marvin Hagler's greatest win -- the knockout of Tommie Hearns -- earned him 4.5 points so far -- 3 points for the post 1980s title fight win and a 1.5 point knockout bonus.
When Hearns is elected to the Hall, Hagler's point total for that fight doubles. He'll get six points for a title fight win over a Hall of Famer and 3 points for the knockout.
Without using further space, here's my top 100 fighters in the International Boxing Hall of Fame:
Rank, Boxer, Years, Total points, Classes
100. Fighting Harada, 1960-70, 2.435, Bantam/Fly
99. Ismael Laguna, 1961-71, 2.438, Lightweight
98. Pancho Villa, 1919-25, 2.442, Flyweight
97. Laszlo Papp, 1957-64, 2.448, Middleweight
96. Lou Ambers, 1932-41, 2.452, Lightweight
95. Sugar Ramos, 1957-72, 2.457, Featherweight
94. Young Stribling, 1921-33, 2.459, Heavyweight
93. Paul Berlenbach, 1923-33, 2.464, Light heavyweight
92. Ken Buchanan, 1965-82, 2.471, Lightweight
91. Harry Wills, 1910-32, 2.473, Heavyweight
90. Jack Dillon, 1908-23, 2.477, Light heavyweight
89. Pipino Cuevas, 1971-89, 2.487, Welterweight
88. Jimmy McLarnin, 1923-36, 2.496, Welterweight
87. Marcel Thil, 1920-37, 2.519, Middleweight
86. Flash Elorde, 1951-71, 2.527, Jr. Lightweight
85. Tony Zale, 1934-48, 2.537, Middleweight
84. Jack Delaney, 1919-32, 2.537, Light heavyweight
83. Tommy Gibbons, 1911-25, 2.555, Heavyweight
82. Freddie Miller, 1927-40, 2.555, Featherweight
81. Bobby Chacon, 1972-88, 2.573, Jr. Light/Feather
80. Jackie "Kid" Berg, 1924-45, 2.578, Jr. Welterweight
79. Charles "Kid" McCoy, 1891-16, 2.583, Middleweight
78. Ingemar Johansson, 1952-63, 2.584, Heavyweight
77. Marcel Cerdan, 1934-49, 2.591, Middleweight
76. Packey McFarland, 1904-15, 2.599, Lightweight
75. Wilfredo Benitez, 1973-90, 2.602, Jr. Mid/Welter/Jr. Welter
74. Kid Chocolate, 1928-38, 2.608, Jr. Light/Feather
73. Freddie Welsh, 1905-22, 2.638, Lightweight
72. Joe Jeannette, 1904-19, 2.643, Heavyweight
71. Mickey Walker, 1919-35, 2.650, Middleweight
70. Victor Galindez, 1969-80, 2.662, Light heavyweight
69. Nino Benvenuti, 1961-71, 2.667, Middle/Jr. Mid
68. Barry McGuigan, 1981-89, 2.674, Featherweight
67. Edwin Rosario, 1979-97, 2.675, Jr. Welter/Light
66. Jose Torres, 1958-69, 2.688, Light heavyweight
65. Carlos Palomino, 1972-98, 2.701, Welterweight
64. Daniel Zaragoza, 1980-97, 2.701, Jr. Feather/Bantam
63. Harry Greb, 1913-26, 2.711, Middleweight
62. Jeff Chandler, 1976-84, 2.716, Bantamweight
61. Freddie Steele, 1928-41, 2.719, Middleweight
60. Sonny Liston, 1953-70, 2.728, Heavyweight
59. John Henry Lewis, 1928-39, 2.731, Light heavyweight
58. Johnny Kilbane, 1907-23, 2.732, Featherweight
57. Jimmy Wilde, 1910-23, 2.756, Flyweight
56. Emile Griffith, 1958-77, 2.761, Middle/Welter
55. Panama Al Brown, 1922-42, 2.766, Bantamweight
54. Gene Fullmer, 1951-63, 2.768, Middleweight
53. Bob Fitzsimmons, 1883-14, 2.800, Heavy/Lt. Heavy/Mid
52. Ruben Olivares, 1965-88, 2.800, Feather/Bantam
51. Jack Johnson, 1897-28, 2.861, Heavyweight
50. Jeff Fenech, 1984-96, 2.862, Feather/Jr. Feather/Bantam
49. Tony Canzoneri, 1925-39, 2.874, Jr. Welter/Light/Feather
48. Ike Williams, 1940-55, 2.903, Lightweight
47. Pascual Perez, 1952-64, 2.915, Flyweight
46. Floyd Patterson, 1952-72, 2.955, Heavyweight
45. Johnny Coulon, 1905-20, 2.965, Bantamweight
44. Abe Attell, 1900-17, 2.978, Featherweight
43. Bob Foster, 1961-78, 2.980, Light heavyweight
42. Terry Norris, 1986-98, 2.986, Jr. Middleweight
41. Jack Dempsey, 1914-27, 2.993, Heavyweight
40. Sandy Saddler, 1944-56, 2.997, Jr. Light/Feather
39. Ezzard Charles, 1940-59, 3.013, Heavyweight
38. Tommy Burns, 1900-20, 3.035, Heavyweight
37. Mike McCallum, 1981-97, 3.051, Lt. Heavy/Middle/Jr. Mid
36. Willie Pep, 1940-66, 3.066, Featherweight
35. Eusebio Pedroza, 1973-92, 3.098, Featherweight
34. Vicente Saldivar, 1961-73, 3.119, Featherweight
33. Benny Leonard, 1911-32, 3.136, Lightweight
32. Barney Ross, 1929-38, 3.138, Welter/Jr. Welter/Light
31. Archie Moore, 1936-63, 3.171, Light heavyweight
30. Sugar Ray Leonard, 1977-97, 3.180, Lt. Heavy/Sup. Mid/Middle/Jr. Mid/Welter
29. George Foreman, 1969-97, 3.186, Heavyweight
28. Stanley Ketchel, 1904-10, 3.188, Middleweight
27. Joe Frazier, 1965-81, 3.196, Heavyweight
26. Salvador Sanchez, 1975-82, 3.201, Featherweight
25. Terry McGovern, 1897-08, 3.205, Feather/Bantam
24. Chiquita Gonzalez, 1984-95, 3.234, Jr. Flyweight
23. Michael Spinks, 1977-88, 3.246, Heavy/Lt. Heavy
22. Gene Tunney, 1915-28, 3.250, Heavy/Lt. Heavy
21. Michael Carbajal, 1989-99, 3.269, Jr. Flyweight
20. Eder Jofre, 1957-76, 3.269, Feather/Bantam
19. Antonio Cervantes, 1964-83, 3.297, Jr. Welterweight
18. Marvin Hagler, 1973-87, 3.356, Middleweight
17. Azumah Nelson, 1979-98, 3.360, Jr. Light/Feather
16. Carlos Ortiz, 1955-72, 3.370, Jr. Welter/Light
15. James Jeffries, 1896-10, 3.371, Heavyweight
14. Jose Napoles, 1958-75, 3.399, Welterweight
13. Carlos Zarate, 1970-88, 3.429, Bantamweight
12. Aaron Pryor, 1976-90, 3.470, Jr. Welterweight
11. Manuel Ortiz, 1938-55, 3.470, Bantamweight
10. Joe Gans, 1891-09, 3.599, Lightweight
9. Rocky Marciano, 1947-55, 3.648, Heavyweight
8. Alexis Arguello, 1968-95, 3.650, Light/Jr. Light/Feather
7. Carlos Monzon, 1963-77, 3.708, Middleweight
6. Khaosai Galaxy, 1980-91, 3.723, Jr. Bantamweight
5. Wilfredo Gomez, 1974-89, 3.973, Jr. Light/Feather/Jr. Feather
4. Sugar Ray Robinson, 1940-65, 4.150, Middle/Welter
3. Muhammad Ali, 1960-81, 4.345, Heavyweight
2. Henry Armstrong, 1931-45, 4.346, Welter/Light/Feather
1. Joe Louis, 1934-51, 4.865, Heavyweight
I'll admit there are a few headscratchers in here. Wilfredo Gomez No. 5 all-time. Well, he had a stellar record, 44-3-1 with 42 knockouts and the knockouts pushed his score upward. Plus, he was a remarkable 21-3 with 19 knockouts in title fights.
Henry Armstrong over Sugar Ray Robinson? Armstrong was just 3-3 in Hall of Fame title fights while Robinson was 10-5-1. But Armstrong was 19-0-1 with 16 KOs in his other title fights and 6-2 against Hall of Famers in non-title bouts. Robinson was 7-2 in his other title fights and although he was 11-1 against Hall of Famers in non-title bouts, he had just one KO in those fights.
There were several heavyweight surprises. Liston is below Floyd Patterson, who he crushed twice, because those were his only title fight wins. Patterson had several defenses before running into Liston.
Jack Dempsey is very low at No. 42 (behind Ezzard Charles and Tommy Burns), while Jack Johnson finished even worse at No. 52, while Jim Jeffries was No. 15.
Dempsey held the heavyweight title but defended it few times. He only had 10 fights for titles or against Hall of Famers. Johnson also was hurt by inactivity -- once he won the title he refused to defend it against fellow black Hall of Famers Sam Langford, Harry Wills or Joe Jeannette -- but also a poor overall record. Johnson lost 13 fights and was knocked out seven times, dragging down his score. Some of those may have been dives. In fact, there are lots of curious losses among these fighters that may have been gangster influenced. I can't judge those. I just added up the points.
Burns is a special case. Lightly regarded by most, he was a very active champion -- if only to keep Johnson off his tail -- with a 11-1 record in title fights with nine KOs.
Marciano never lost and he had a fine record in his title fights and fights against Hall of Famers -- 8-0 with 7 KOs. He just didn't fight enough of them. Rocky had the top career score of any figher -- 86.3 with Galaxy next at 84.7 -- but his point total from title fights ranked just 45th. If he had stuck around long enough to beat Patterson and Liston, he would have been able to move into the Ali, Louis point totals.
Monday, October 16, 2006
Babe Ruth was a myth part one: How major were the major leagues?
You hear all the time how expansion has diluted the pitching in the major leagues. People wistfully point to the years when there were just 16 teams and talk about how tough Babe Ruth had it in his day.
The truth, though, today it is nearly twice as hard to reach the major leagues as it was for the Babe.
In 1920, Ruth's first season with the New York Yankees, the Census Bureau totaled the U.S. population at 106 million. The male population through the decades has roughly been about 49 percent so there were about 52 million males in the U.S. at that time.
There were 16 teams in the major leagues with 25-man rosters, meaning at any one time, there were 400 major league jobs.
Of course, in 1920, blacks weren't allowed in the major leagues, meaning about 5.2 million males out of the original 52 million were ineligible.
So essentially, you had 400 jobs for about 47.8 million white men and boys which equals 117,000 men per major league roster spot.
Today, there are 30 major league teams and 750 major league positions, so the number of openings has nearly doubled.
The U.S. population, though, nearly tripled. In 2000, there were 281 million people in the U.S., including 34.7 million blacks, which now can play in the major leagues. Again estimating the male population at 49 percent, there were roughly 137.9 million males eligible for those 750 big league jobs. That equals about 184,000 per big league roster spot.
The expansion in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, actually helped bring that number down. The toughest Census year to reach the bigs, when looking at just the U.S. population, was 1960 when there was still just the 16 teams and 400 positions available for a male (both black and white) population of 87.9 million. That meant there was one major league spot for every 220,000 males.
Today, if you wanted to make it as easy to reach the majors as it was back in the Babe's day, you'd need to add 16 more teams. At 46 major league teams, there'd be a spot for every 119,900 men.
Of course, the major leagues are more international than ever before and taking that into consideration shows it's never been more difficult to reach the bigs.
Here is a list of the percentage of international players making their big league debuts in each decade. The 2000s data is through the 2005 season.
Year, total new players, international players, pctg.
1900s -- 1,081 new players, 51 foreign players, 4.7 percent.
1910s -- 1,534 new players, 40 foreign players, 2.6 percent.
1920s -- 1,203 new players, 17 foreign players, 1.4 percent.
1930s -- 1,037 new players, 19 foreign players, 1.8 percent.
1940s -- 1,166 new players, 50 foreign players, 4.3 percent.
(Color bar falls in 1947)
1950s -- 1,076 new players, 84 foreign players, 7.8 percent.
(Boston Red Sox last team to integrate in 1958)
1960s -- 1,246 new players, 139 foreign players, 11.2 percent.
1970s -- 1,312 new players, 138 foreign players, 10.5 percent.
1980s -- 1,457 new players, 191 foreign players, 13.1 percent.
1990s -- 1,877 new players, 418 foreign players, 22.3 percent.
2000s -- 1,200 new players through 2005, 320 foreign players, 26.7 percent.
In 1920, major league players almost entirely came from the U.S., Canada and Cuba. If you added the white populations of Canada -- which was 90 percent white -- and Cuba -- just 39 percent white -- to the U.S., you had 51.2 million men for 400 positions or one roster spot for every 127,948 males.
The 1930s saw the beginning of the Venezuelan influx. Once the color line fell, players from Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic -- both overwhelmingly black countries -- began making the majors in the 1960s and 1970s. Mexicans didn't start signing with major league organizations in any real numbers until the 1970s and the 1990s and this decade have seen the coming of the Japanese.
Today, the 30 teams and 750 major league spots are being fought over by players from seven predominant countries with a combined male population of 287.3 million. That's one big league roster spot for every 383,170 males.
To get that number back to the ratio of 127,948 in Babe's day of 1920, you'd need 90 teams.
The major leagues have never been more major.
The truth, though, today it is nearly twice as hard to reach the major leagues as it was for the Babe.
In 1920, Ruth's first season with the New York Yankees, the Census Bureau totaled the U.S. population at 106 million. The male population through the decades has roughly been about 49 percent so there were about 52 million males in the U.S. at that time.
There were 16 teams in the major leagues with 25-man rosters, meaning at any one time, there were 400 major league jobs.
Of course, in 1920, blacks weren't allowed in the major leagues, meaning about 5.2 million males out of the original 52 million were ineligible.
So essentially, you had 400 jobs for about 47.8 million white men and boys which equals 117,000 men per major league roster spot.
Today, there are 30 major league teams and 750 major league positions, so the number of openings has nearly doubled.
The U.S. population, though, nearly tripled. In 2000, there were 281 million people in the U.S., including 34.7 million blacks, which now can play in the major leagues. Again estimating the male population at 49 percent, there were roughly 137.9 million males eligible for those 750 big league jobs. That equals about 184,000 per big league roster spot.
The expansion in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, actually helped bring that number down. The toughest Census year to reach the bigs, when looking at just the U.S. population, was 1960 when there was still just the 16 teams and 400 positions available for a male (both black and white) population of 87.9 million. That meant there was one major league spot for every 220,000 males.
Today, if you wanted to make it as easy to reach the majors as it was back in the Babe's day, you'd need to add 16 more teams. At 46 major league teams, there'd be a spot for every 119,900 men.
Of course, the major leagues are more international than ever before and taking that into consideration shows it's never been more difficult to reach the bigs.
Here is a list of the percentage of international players making their big league debuts in each decade. The 2000s data is through the 2005 season.
Year, total new players, international players, pctg.
1900s -- 1,081 new players, 51 foreign players, 4.7 percent.
1910s -- 1,534 new players, 40 foreign players, 2.6 percent.
1920s -- 1,203 new players, 17 foreign players, 1.4 percent.
1930s -- 1,037 new players, 19 foreign players, 1.8 percent.
1940s -- 1,166 new players, 50 foreign players, 4.3 percent.
(Color bar falls in 1947)
1950s -- 1,076 new players, 84 foreign players, 7.8 percent.
(Boston Red Sox last team to integrate in 1958)
1960s -- 1,246 new players, 139 foreign players, 11.2 percent.
1970s -- 1,312 new players, 138 foreign players, 10.5 percent.
1980s -- 1,457 new players, 191 foreign players, 13.1 percent.
1990s -- 1,877 new players, 418 foreign players, 22.3 percent.
2000s -- 1,200 new players through 2005, 320 foreign players, 26.7 percent.
In 1920, major league players almost entirely came from the U.S., Canada and Cuba. If you added the white populations of Canada -- which was 90 percent white -- and Cuba -- just 39 percent white -- to the U.S., you had 51.2 million men for 400 positions or one roster spot for every 127,948 males.
The 1930s saw the beginning of the Venezuelan influx. Once the color line fell, players from Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic -- both overwhelmingly black countries -- began making the majors in the 1960s and 1970s. Mexicans didn't start signing with major league organizations in any real numbers until the 1970s and the 1990s and this decade have seen the coming of the Japanese.
Today, the 30 teams and 750 major league spots are being fought over by players from seven predominant countries with a combined male population of 287.3 million. That's one big league roster spot for every 383,170 males.
To get that number back to the ratio of 127,948 in Babe's day of 1920, you'd need 90 teams.
The major leagues have never been more major.
Monday, October 09, 2006
Babe Ruth was a myth
As you can see by my posts, I love sports history and trying to quantify who were the greatest players in various sports. I have a system for baseball, but thanks to the fact they no longer produce the Baseball Encyclopedia, where I get all of the fielding stats, it's taking a while to finish the tables to produce it.
When I am finished, you'll quickly notice there will be some players missing. You won't see Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Babe Ruth. In fact, none of the players who compiled the bulk of their stats before 1947 will be included.
I'm a huge Negro Leagues fan -- I have about 20 books on the subject ranging from a history of the Puerto Rican leagues to most of John Holway's works -- and I fully support a call Holway made in one of the first books of his I read. All statistics before Jackie Robinson should carry an asterisk or be set aside as non-integrated records.
Really, do you think Cobb would have hit .367 in his career if you took out the weakest outfielders in the American League and replaced them with speedsters such as Oscar Charleston and Spotswood Poles to chase balls in the gap?
Would Cobb even have been the greatest centerfielder considering Charleston was likely just as fast and had much more power?
How high would Stan Musial's lifetime batting average been if you removed Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente from the majors and replaced them with AAA white outfielders?
I pick on Ruth in the headline of the post just because he seems to generate so much passion. I wrote a column on this subject for the newspaper I work for and received phone calls where the four letter words outnumbered the non-four letter words.
I consider Ruth a great player and an overall good guy. He, unlike Cobb, barnstormed often with Negro Leaguers seeing it as a way to make some extra money for himself and his opponents. There are legions of stories of his praising Negro Leaguers.
But what are we really to make of his numbers? He compiled them against all white players from the U.S. except for a handful of white Cubans at a time when scouts rarely headed west of the Great Plains. Indeed, the Pacific Coast League was considered to be very nearly major league and many players chose to stay in the PCL rather than travel east for the major leagues.
Really, all we know about Ruth was that he was the greatest white right fielder of the east coast.
Why even bring it up now? Sports Illustrated just published its all-time team. It included: Lou Gehrig, Lefty Grove, Joe DiMaggio, Cy Young, Ty Cobb, Christy Mathewson, Rogers Hornsby, Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson and Honus Wagner.
It did not include a single player who played a majority of his years in the Negro Leagues.
That's really a joke. Look at three on the list, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Jackie Robinson. They came directly from the Negro Leagues with short stays in the minors.
If you were to pick an all-time team and insisted on including pre-1947 players, then Oscar Charleston should replace either DiMaggio or Cobb, Satchel Paige needs to be on the list ahead of either Mathewson or Young and Gibson should replace Johnny Bench or Yogi Berra. And I say this as a life-long Reds fan who grew up watching Bench play.
In the following posts, I'll add stats to support the arguments.
When I am finished, you'll quickly notice there will be some players missing. You won't see Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Babe Ruth. In fact, none of the players who compiled the bulk of their stats before 1947 will be included.
I'm a huge Negro Leagues fan -- I have about 20 books on the subject ranging from a history of the Puerto Rican leagues to most of John Holway's works -- and I fully support a call Holway made in one of the first books of his I read. All statistics before Jackie Robinson should carry an asterisk or be set aside as non-integrated records.
Really, do you think Cobb would have hit .367 in his career if you took out the weakest outfielders in the American League and replaced them with speedsters such as Oscar Charleston and Spotswood Poles to chase balls in the gap?
Would Cobb even have been the greatest centerfielder considering Charleston was likely just as fast and had much more power?
How high would Stan Musial's lifetime batting average been if you removed Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente from the majors and replaced them with AAA white outfielders?
I pick on Ruth in the headline of the post just because he seems to generate so much passion. I wrote a column on this subject for the newspaper I work for and received phone calls where the four letter words outnumbered the non-four letter words.
I consider Ruth a great player and an overall good guy. He, unlike Cobb, barnstormed often with Negro Leaguers seeing it as a way to make some extra money for himself and his opponents. There are legions of stories of his praising Negro Leaguers.
But what are we really to make of his numbers? He compiled them against all white players from the U.S. except for a handful of white Cubans at a time when scouts rarely headed west of the Great Plains. Indeed, the Pacific Coast League was considered to be very nearly major league and many players chose to stay in the PCL rather than travel east for the major leagues.
Really, all we know about Ruth was that he was the greatest white right fielder of the east coast.
Why even bring it up now? Sports Illustrated just published its all-time team. It included: Lou Gehrig, Lefty Grove, Joe DiMaggio, Cy Young, Ty Cobb, Christy Mathewson, Rogers Hornsby, Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson and Honus Wagner.
It did not include a single player who played a majority of his years in the Negro Leagues.
That's really a joke. Look at three on the list, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Jackie Robinson. They came directly from the Negro Leagues with short stays in the minors.
If you were to pick an all-time team and insisted on including pre-1947 players, then Oscar Charleston should replace either DiMaggio or Cobb, Satchel Paige needs to be on the list ahead of either Mathewson or Young and Gibson should replace Johnny Bench or Yogi Berra. And I say this as a life-long Reds fan who grew up watching Bench play.
In the following posts, I'll add stats to support the arguments.
Saturday, October 07, 2006
Pro basketball's greatest players: The top 60
Just in time for the beginning of NBA training camps, here are the 60 greatest players based on a system that weights by position, ranks players versus the league leaders and ranks playoff performance based against their own season performance.
Each season that's played, I add a player to the list so now we have 60 rather than last year's 59. Two of the old Big Three in Dallas leaped onto the list.
Player, Years, Raw total, Pos. Adj., Final Total
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1969-1989, 22721.5, 0.0, 22721.5
2. Wilt Chamberlain, 1959-1973, 21838.9, 0.0, 21838.9
3. Michael Jordan, 1984-2003, 20809.7, 651.5, 21461.2
4. Julius Erving, 1971-1987, 20247.8, 502.9, 20750.7
5. Hakeem Olajuwon, 1984-2002, 19935.7, 0.0, 19935.7
6. Larry Bird, 1979-1992, 19386.9, 502.9, 19889.8
7. Karl Malone, 1985-2004, 19407.7, 418.0, 19825.7
8. Bill Russell, 1956-1969, 19765.2, 0.0, 19765.2
9. Oscar Robertson, 1960-1974, 18753.0, 523.6, 19276.6
10. Magic Johnson, 1979-1996, 18692.0, 523.6, 19215.6
11. Tim Duncan, 1997-2006, 18769.3, 418.0, 19187.3
12. Bob Cousy, 1950-1970, 18554.9, 523.6, 19078.5
13. Shaquille O'Neal, 1992-2006, 18854.3, 0.0, 18854.3
14. Kevin Garnett, 1996-2006, 18354.6, 418.0, 18772.6
15. Bob Pettit, 1954-1965, 18297.2, 418.0, 18715.2
16. Jerry West, 1960-1974, 17946.0, 651.5, 18597.5
17. David Robinson, 1989-2003, 18490.3, 0.0, 18490.3
18. Moses Malone, 1974-1995, 18246.1, 0.0, 18246.1
19. George Mikan, 1948-1956, 18123.1, 0.0, 18123.1
20. Dolph Schayes, 1949-1964, 17694.8, 418.0, 18112.8
21. Elgin Baylor, 1958-1972, 17552.2, 502.9, 18055.1
22. Elvin Hayes, 1968-1984, 17347.0, 418.0, 17765.0
23. Charles Barkley, 1984-2000, 17139.1, 418.0, 17557.1
24. John Stockton, 1984-2003, 17006.1, 523.6, 17529.7
25. Gary Payton, 1990-2005, 16878.0, 523.6, 17401.6
26. Artis Gilmore, 1971-1988, 17375.7, 0.0, 17375.7
27. Rick Barry, 1965-1980, 16677.6, 502.9, 17180.5
28. Scottie Pippen, 1987-2004, 16536.3, 502.9, 17039.2
29. George Gervin, 1972-1986, 16304.3, 651.5, 16955.8
30. John Havlicek, 1962-1978, 16248.4, 502.9, 16751.3
31. Kobe Bryant, 1996-2006, 16032.8, 651.5, 16684.3
32. Jason Kidd, 1994-2006, 16096.0, 523.6, 16619.6
33. Pat Ewing, 1985-2002, 16609.2, 0.0, 16609.2
34. Isiah Thomas, 1981-1993, 15847.2, 523.6, 16370.8
35. Allen Iverson, 1996-2006, 15825.1, 523.6, 16348.7
36. Clyde Drexler, 1983-1998, 15594.0, 651.5, 16245.5
37. George McGinnis, 1971-1982, 15661.4, 418.0, 16079.4
38. Walt Frazier, 1967-1980, 15210.5, 523.6, 15734.1
39. Bob McAdoo, 1972-1986, 15574, 0.0, 15574.0
40. Connie Hawkins, 1961-1976, 14956.0, 502.9, 15458.9
41. Paul Arizin, 1950-1962, 14906.3, 502.9, 15409.2
42. Billy Cunningham, 1965-1976, 14869.1, 502.9, 15372.0
43. Dave Cowens, 1970-1983, 15258.6, 0.0, 15258.6
44. Dominique Wilkins, 1982-1999, 14542.8, 502.9, 15045.7
45. Dirk Nowitzki, 1998-2006, 14610.8, 418.0, 15028.8
46. Alex English, 1976-1991, 14486.0, 502.9, 14988.9
47. Chris Webber, 1993-2006, 14344.0, 418.0, 14762.0
48. Dan Issel, 1970-1985, 14331.7, 418.0, 14749.7
49. Bob Lanier, 1970-1984, 14649.0, 0.0, 14649.0
50. Mel Daniels, 1967-1977, 14557.3, 0.0, 14557.3
51. Tim Hardaway, 1989-2003, 13990.9, 523.6, 14514.5
52. Willis Reed, 1964-1974, 14458.4, 0.0, 14458.4
53. Bill Sharman, 1950-1961, 13802.7, 651.5, 14454.2
54. Mo Cheeks, 1978-1993, 13909.0, 523.6, 14432.6
55. Hal Greer, 1958-1973, 13769.6, 651.5, 14421.1
56. Dennis Johnson, 1976-1990, 13731.9, 651.5, 14383.4
57. Robert Parish, 1976-1997, 14340.4, 0.0, 14340.4
58. Gus Williams, 1975-1987, 13733.0, 523.6, 14256.6
59. Kevin Johnson, 1987-2000, 13653.7, 523.6, 14177.3
60. Steve Nash, 1996-2006, 13497.4, 523.6, 14021.0
Each season that's played, I add a player to the list so now we have 60 rather than last year's 59. Two of the old Big Three in Dallas leaped onto the list.
Player, Years, Raw total, Pos. Adj., Final Total
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1969-1989, 22721.5, 0.0, 22721.5
2. Wilt Chamberlain, 1959-1973, 21838.9, 0.0, 21838.9
3. Michael Jordan, 1984-2003, 20809.7, 651.5, 21461.2
4. Julius Erving, 1971-1987, 20247.8, 502.9, 20750.7
5. Hakeem Olajuwon, 1984-2002, 19935.7, 0.0, 19935.7
6. Larry Bird, 1979-1992, 19386.9, 502.9, 19889.8
7. Karl Malone, 1985-2004, 19407.7, 418.0, 19825.7
8. Bill Russell, 1956-1969, 19765.2, 0.0, 19765.2
9. Oscar Robertson, 1960-1974, 18753.0, 523.6, 19276.6
10. Magic Johnson, 1979-1996, 18692.0, 523.6, 19215.6
11. Tim Duncan, 1997-2006, 18769.3, 418.0, 19187.3
12. Bob Cousy, 1950-1970, 18554.9, 523.6, 19078.5
13. Shaquille O'Neal, 1992-2006, 18854.3, 0.0, 18854.3
14. Kevin Garnett, 1996-2006, 18354.6, 418.0, 18772.6
15. Bob Pettit, 1954-1965, 18297.2, 418.0, 18715.2
16. Jerry West, 1960-1974, 17946.0, 651.5, 18597.5
17. David Robinson, 1989-2003, 18490.3, 0.0, 18490.3
18. Moses Malone, 1974-1995, 18246.1, 0.0, 18246.1
19. George Mikan, 1948-1956, 18123.1, 0.0, 18123.1
20. Dolph Schayes, 1949-1964, 17694.8, 418.0, 18112.8
21. Elgin Baylor, 1958-1972, 17552.2, 502.9, 18055.1
22. Elvin Hayes, 1968-1984, 17347.0, 418.0, 17765.0
23. Charles Barkley, 1984-2000, 17139.1, 418.0, 17557.1
24. John Stockton, 1984-2003, 17006.1, 523.6, 17529.7
25. Gary Payton, 1990-2005, 16878.0, 523.6, 17401.6
26. Artis Gilmore, 1971-1988, 17375.7, 0.0, 17375.7
27. Rick Barry, 1965-1980, 16677.6, 502.9, 17180.5
28. Scottie Pippen, 1987-2004, 16536.3, 502.9, 17039.2
29. George Gervin, 1972-1986, 16304.3, 651.5, 16955.8
30. John Havlicek, 1962-1978, 16248.4, 502.9, 16751.3
31. Kobe Bryant, 1996-2006, 16032.8, 651.5, 16684.3
32. Jason Kidd, 1994-2006, 16096.0, 523.6, 16619.6
33. Pat Ewing, 1985-2002, 16609.2, 0.0, 16609.2
34. Isiah Thomas, 1981-1993, 15847.2, 523.6, 16370.8
35. Allen Iverson, 1996-2006, 15825.1, 523.6, 16348.7
36. Clyde Drexler, 1983-1998, 15594.0, 651.5, 16245.5
37. George McGinnis, 1971-1982, 15661.4, 418.0, 16079.4
38. Walt Frazier, 1967-1980, 15210.5, 523.6, 15734.1
39. Bob McAdoo, 1972-1986, 15574, 0.0, 15574.0
40. Connie Hawkins, 1961-1976, 14956.0, 502.9, 15458.9
41. Paul Arizin, 1950-1962, 14906.3, 502.9, 15409.2
42. Billy Cunningham, 1965-1976, 14869.1, 502.9, 15372.0
43. Dave Cowens, 1970-1983, 15258.6, 0.0, 15258.6
44. Dominique Wilkins, 1982-1999, 14542.8, 502.9, 15045.7
45. Dirk Nowitzki, 1998-2006, 14610.8, 418.0, 15028.8
46. Alex English, 1976-1991, 14486.0, 502.9, 14988.9
47. Chris Webber, 1993-2006, 14344.0, 418.0, 14762.0
48. Dan Issel, 1970-1985, 14331.7, 418.0, 14749.7
49. Bob Lanier, 1970-1984, 14649.0, 0.0, 14649.0
50. Mel Daniels, 1967-1977, 14557.3, 0.0, 14557.3
51. Tim Hardaway, 1989-2003, 13990.9, 523.6, 14514.5
52. Willis Reed, 1964-1974, 14458.4, 0.0, 14458.4
53. Bill Sharman, 1950-1961, 13802.7, 651.5, 14454.2
54. Mo Cheeks, 1978-1993, 13909.0, 523.6, 14432.6
55. Hal Greer, 1958-1973, 13769.6, 651.5, 14421.1
56. Dennis Johnson, 1976-1990, 13731.9, 651.5, 14383.4
57. Robert Parish, 1976-1997, 14340.4, 0.0, 14340.4
58. Gus Williams, 1975-1987, 13733.0, 523.6, 14256.6
59. Kevin Johnson, 1987-2000, 13653.7, 523.6, 14177.3
60. Steve Nash, 1996-2006, 13497.4, 523.6, 14021.0
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